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DAW sound engine
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
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576
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 22:48
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
676
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 00:54
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I believe that when it comes to sound quality, Cakewalk are on top of the list.
It lets you use large ammount of RAM and the quality is top notch.
But, still I love the flow of my more familiar sequencers.
  www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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2822
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 01:11
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Ok, i just downloaded the two files again and imported them into my cubase 4..
before, i made the blind test actualy blind in itunes with no technical view on the files..just because i didn`t want to run it into cubase, because of the same soundengine as nuendo..anyway
it is right..as soon as i swap the phase of one loop the first drum part cancels each other out perfectly..but i refered even to the first lead after the drumloop , where we heard a difference..
the two loops are not of the same length as you guys already mentioned etc..
i will prepare a blind test for me as well cause this is still bugging me 
i will grab only vsti and the same plugins to create a loop and see if they cancel each other out..no prepared loops..
bounce them at 44100hz and 24 bit this should be really the same..if they are the same..
ok, btw..with this mp3 sound..it definatly becomes obvious if you play an original wave track,well produced and the ripped mp3 on a big PA.. imo
well i do not know winabx but just reverse the phase in any sequencer or mixer and it should cancel out perfect if its the same thats true..
this time the loops were not the same..so therefor you can hear a difference..
i think when i will do the test tomorrow..the loops will actualy cancel out perfectly..but we`ll see..
i think the difference in the sequencers will come up if you proceed certain methods to manipulate the sound..like the timestrech algorythm in cubase/logic/live/pro tools will sound different for example..that is based on the code for sure..but i even thought/think the code of the main smming bus is different as well , so there should/might be a difference as well..
good n8.. 
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
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751
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 01:22
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I do believe the time stretch features sound different. As for summing though I still have not found anyone who can demonstrate a difference. |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
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2822
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 01:33
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yes..i even just heard about differences..but a simple phase reverse clears all up..maybe people actualy always claim the host sound tools rather than just the summing bus..
the 64 bit bus engine of live will even just take effect if it comes to several sounds summed up..and kind of interest me right now..
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 10:13
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
676
Posted : Mar 21, 2009 00:46
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Sure, but I can prove that Cakewalk is not "Top Off"
but "On Top"
Now, I have uploaded a raw line, made both in Cubase SX3 and Cakewalk Sonar 8, both are 32 bit, both on 0db, same preset.....now, you can hear and actually see that the same VST instrument has a more detail on the higher frequeancies, more definition and clearer, that difference is preety clear and you will hear it when you play your digital plugins.
here is a sendspace with some demo.
Now, I did not take time and went to analize more, but feel free on those wave lines.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/170jsr
Cheers.
www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
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3315
Posted : Mar 22, 2009 02:00
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EtherealMotive
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
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186
Posted : Mar 22, 2009 03:24
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The best sound engine I've heard so far, which I think sounds better than both Logic 8 and Pro Tools 8 is Sonar 8. |
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Mar 22, 2009 06:05
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-21 00:46, Enertopia wrote:
Sure, but I can prove that Cakewalk is not "Top Off"
but "On Top"
Now, I have uploaded a raw line, made both in Cubase SX3 and Cakewalk Sonar 8, both are 32 bit, both on 0db, same preset.....now, you can hear and actually see that the same VST instrument has a more detail on the higher frequeancies, more definition and clearer, that difference is preety clear and you will hear it when you play your digital plugins.
here is a sendspace with some demo.
Now, I did not take time and went to analize more, but feel free on those wave lines.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/170jsr
Cheers.
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Why is one file twice the size of the other?
What VST did you use?
EDIT looks like it is twice as long?
Why cant you give 24 bit files? Apparently most people can't tell the difference between 24bit and 16 bit in a blind test. In fact the most comprehensive test to date showed that no one could!!!!
So whats the possibility that someone can hear a difference between two 32bit float files?
To date every test I have seen posted on a forum on this subject has been flawed, including the first one in this very thread.
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Mar 22, 2009 06:20
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These files also go out of sync. There is a delay effect on them and it would appear they are not set the same. This will of course change the sound. |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
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576
Posted : Mar 22, 2009 13:59
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some stuff from ableton guys..
-you should avoid any bit truncations throughout the entire signal path. Note that bit truncations may even occur in 3rd party plugins (in their internal engine).
-plugins which add some random distortion effects (or any other kinds of random effects) are counter-productive for phase-cancellation tests, because the effect will always sound slightly different and thus phase-cancellation is impossible. The same thing is actually true for synthesizer plugins. Some synths which emulate analog oscillators may not always restart their oscillators in sync, so they will never sound the same.
-some DAWs use a different panning law, i.e. they attenuate the signals differently, depending on the position of the pan knob. This leads to the effect that the perceived loudness and width of the stereo signal is slightly different.
-another thing is that the displayed dB value of your volume faders may not always be 100% accurate. Most DAWs will be rounding the values, so let's say you drag a volume fader down to -10 dB, it may rather be something like -10.19 dB in Live and say -10.67 dB in Logic. This will again make a complete phase-cancellation impossible.
Some reasons why I avoided use of VSTs in the test, too much hustle..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
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676
Posted : Mar 22, 2009 14:32
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One of files is longer, because it has a couple of more bars, and both use the same delay that comes on the preset, not different.
But, for me it is not important to proove who has a better engine or not, It just a waste of precious time.
Hope you guys find out there what you are looking for.
www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Mar 22, 2009 16:31
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-22 14:32, Enertopia wrote:
One of files is longer, because it has a couple of more bars, and both use the same delay that comes on the preset, not different.
But, for me it is not important to proove who has a better engine or not, It just a waste of precious time.
Hope you guys find out there what you are looking for.
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I wasn't looking  I am happy with my DAW. I don't think DAW's sound different ( or different enough to worry) , but people keep claiming they do. And I have to say using a vst synth for the test was asking for trouble.
I am interesting in how many times I can go in and out the box to my outboard with out noticeable degradation. I am interested in improving my monitoring and room acoustics to the best I can. That way I can make real decisions how to best use what I have and start to learn what is myth and what is not.
ANALOGUE ROCKS AND PC'S SOUND BETTER THAN MACS  |
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cr1st0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
208
Posted : Mar 23, 2009 22:43
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And between cubase sx 2 and cubase sx 3 there are some difference in the sound quality field ?
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