aciduss
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 22:57
Just for the record... i was kinda being sarcastic with my last comments... 99.9% of what is commonly conceived as dark psytrance sounds just as i described it...
There have been many interesting discussions on this board related to "dark" psytrance and what exactly makes it "dark", ask Ocelot.
My point is that most people producing dark psytrance just set fl studio to 150+ bpm throw a couple of renegade instances and use lots of dbglitch, at high tempos everything sounds intricated and complex even if is a monotone retriggered sample of the exorcist girl moaning "fuckme". No creativity whatsoever... of course there are exceptions and some valuable music out there but it is a minority.
FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 23:07
what is dark psytrance...
there is no such thing. only dark emotions within individuals that they attatch to a certain feeling conveyed by sounds wch varies greatly from person to person. the darkness if anywhere is entiriely ours and entirely internal. it has nothingNOTHING to do with what freaking osc you use or if you use meoldies. yep its the acid leads ya thats the stuff. now its dark. please tell me what is DARK or not dark about an osscilating waveform. i had someone tell me it couldnt be dark without saw leads.. WTF.
"and could u guys give more details on what exactly to do".
fock man, start over and unplug your internet. im not trying to discourage or make fun its just that starting out with questions like that will lead you unauthentic results.
Sanathana
Sanathana
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 23:16
Facehead : Aciduss ur right bro
Actually i agree with facehead. dont listen to people just follow ur emotions and the music will automatically follow. you may have a melody or sound in ur mind, then get to the drawing board and try and search that sound till you find it most often than not, you may find a better one
above all, enjoy making music, let people hate it or love it, dont bother and just keep your creative fire burning
want to start a track that sounds eerie, twisted, dark, night time oriented or just pure psychedelia without boundaries:
start on any scale below C4 for your bassline and progress it the way you want with some sound and melody - good luck bro
aciduss
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 23:42
oh yeah! what is life man?
You can go as ambiguous as you want dude... but there is, if you like to call it that way, an "industry standard"... yes, i also hate recipes for art, i also believe mood on music is just a consequence of the artist's emotions but as in every branch of the art world there are some constants that give artwork a certain tint.
Darkness is the absence of light... so after all it is not that ambiguous, it is a mater of liking what darkness holds within... absence of other emotions if you like so you want to create aggressive, fearful, intense ideas...
Sawtooths on low octaves sound very harsh and agressive thus one's mind relate it to dark emotions, also an unstable chord, also a high pitched tremolo tone that feels like madness itself.
Another interesting comment could be comparing light spectrum to sound... Dark could be compared to low frequencies and the left side of the Hz range, it is common to associate low frequencies with ominous 'scarey' feelings eventho high pitched tones can also be helpful in crafting crazy and intense sensations.
IMHO It is about relating sound timbers to specific sensations. And there are specific stuff that create specific moods in art. For example you won't be able to sound "dark" at all using major scale arpeggios on square oscillators.
You need to understand music (and life) enough to recreate specific situations... when you are a total noob there are just too many ways in which you can proceed, what's wrong with asking more detail on what to do?
Yes, everything it is a mater of trial and error but you can try some stuff to begin with...
Say for example: diminished seconds, unstable chords, agressive synths and deep atmoshperes...
It can be really hard for a beginner to be authentic, sometimes one just wants to experiment and sound like a genre you like it is after a while, when experience comes that you really have the tools to decide what to do and how authentic you want to be.
OP: My very best advice would be to listen to your favorite tracks, listen to what you like, and ask specific questions on that... we will be able to help you out much more that way.
Otherwise thread will just go on trying, once again, to define a genre some claim not even exist.
FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Jun 8, 2010 23:50
Quote:
Otherwise thread will just go on trying, once again, to define a genre some claim not even exist.
hehe so true.
Maine Coon
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 00:05
FaceHead, great post (the big one on the first page)! I agree on all accounts: about the nature of darkpsy, about the same track having different meaning to different people and about insanity. If it were up to me, I'd make it a sticky somewhere in the Forum. I don’t agree about “try whatever you feel like and see where it takes you”. It’s a daunting task to start creating something without any technical knowledge. Even some simple advice like “use an LFO synced to 1/64ths” (I just made that up ) could be a good start. Why not help a guy with a real technical advice? (And I would gladly eavesdrop too. )
Aciduss, what you are describing (cheap “hardcore” tracks with no meaning) exists – I’ve heard some junk of that sort. But I think your "99.9%" estimate is clearly an overstatement. Otherwise you wouldn’t later post a long description of what “dark” means, right? I am with Ocelot on this one: there is dark psychedelic trance (which can be of any sub-genre), there is darkpsy as a specific subgenre defined by Parasense (afaik) and there is “chipmunks on amphetamines tiptoeing through tulips and trying to be scary” ((C) Ocelot) – a fringe style which is also called “darkpsy” just because nobody bothered to invent a different name for it.
While we are on this subject: Ektoplazm’s latest release (“Tandava Dance”) is playing on my computer right now. It’s interesting, including even some machine-gun darkpsy tracks (I guess this is what Ektoplazm calls “psycore”).
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 00:12
well,, i can tell you,
with that LFO (big amplitude) on bAss , you can sound like every other Dub artist i've heard
Facehead. your ideas are intriguing to me, i'll subcribe to your newsletter
edit, only slower sync
aciduss
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 00:26
Quote:
But I think your "99.9%" estimate is clearly an overstatement.
Yes, i tend to exaggerate, soz.
Quote:
“chipmunks on amphetamines tiptoeing through tulips and trying to be scary
Yes, that is most of what i was critiquing...
Nice thread u all.
FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 01:02
i cant say i didnt post any "how do i get a psytrance sounding bassline threads" hehe i totally understand all about the extreme task of being a beginner. i spent soo much time trying to get that "psytrance sound" hehe. sometimes failure is a good thing
elastic_plastic
Re-Boot
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 13:20
This video is quiet cool.... though its not about making dark sounds.... instead totally towards the full on side....
have a look
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 13:22
suck my signature and think about it....
there´s no dark at all. i mean what is darkpsy? what is psy at all???? but dont wanna go on here with a discussion like that.
to go with the masses simply sample some horror moviez, drop on kick/bass and that´s it. some high speed lfo brrrrtbrrrtt. and there´s your brandnew dark shizZle
kindzadza is a master of his own genre and i dont like to put this into this dark blahblah story. it´s simply a very own style he got. if you dont know anything about music production and theories i´d recommend you to read and watch ALOT of tutorial stuff about synthesis in general (good ones are these "hands on...." thingys). without jokin at any point i found at least to me i should have started with learnin what a sound is, how we achieve that and how we recreate sounds. if you know nothin bout that your way will be much longer by try and error.
for that kindzadza sound i´d recommend you to learn ALOT about fm synthesis and wavtable stuff. think about and learn yourself why.... i wrote a tutorial aboout this kindzadza lead style thingy, it should be somewhere around here and on triplag.... easy tutorial how to achieve this typical high pitched fm leadsound, if you dont find, im to lazy to search now and dont wanna do all your work , then simply read in the "mother of all leads thread" or stuff similiar and i guess you will find enough content for gettin started.
at the end "darkpsy" or whatever you wanna call it is no other production in its ways like progressive music is. if you wanna start your own unique sound i´d really recommend you givin a shit abou any genres, names, styles, descriptions of other ppl. even try to avoid any discussions about that, just resultin in very heated discussions each one tryin to defend his own opinion. sooooo, fuck that genre shit and just get started. do whatever comes out of you and enjoy to observe that
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 13:30
Quote:
On 2010-06-08 15:19, Kryten wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-08 13:25, the fool wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-06-08 13:21, Marrukka wrote:
take acid and watch a horror movie
after the movie, rebuild ur trip...
that's if you haven't gone completely insane lol
No, I think thats something you really need to be to make darkpsy...the more insanity the better...at least for me Dark sounds like that.(not meant positive here, I really really dont like Dark )
well dood, pretty messy comment. what did you do some time back? sleeped over night during each festival? or speakin just about what you call dark? if you´re against evolution and still stuck into that "spiritual goa hippy" thingy and past everything has been better stuff, well than i cant get what you´re lookin for on partys like the fullmoon festival.....
but great comment at all....
at the end most artists imao are insane. anytime tried creatin a song? well, if you´re not on techno stuff i think it´s pretty insane what all these psyartists are doin. psy is insane music, soooo cant get your comment sorry.
pls dont think im feelin offended or stuff, just thinkin about and cant get it. im not stuck into any of this genre shit and really enjoy how psy is evolving. with all that dark and genre discussion shizZle, blastin huge partys even if split now into their fuckin genres i still enjoy havin a look at it and observin that for years now. imo it´s great and no one would have expected only ten years ago......
snakeo09
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 13:54
i wasnt trying to start this whole argument or whatever about genres, i just wrote dark psy coz i liked the way it sounded, thats all anyways ill take up ur advice on learning fm synthesis mandari and to the others that posted il take all ur advices into consideration.
Lets just not get heated up on this genre topic
Boom!
Kryten
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 14:10
Quote:
On 2010-06-09 13:30, -=Mandari=- wrote:
well dood, pretty messy comment. what did you do some time back? sleeped over night during each festival?
Heh, yeah I sometimes did that And then getting up when the sun rises...to dance into the day...just great
Quote:
or speakin just about what you call dark? if you´re against evolution and still stuck into that "spiritual goa hippy" thingy and past everything has been better stuff, well than i cant get what you´re lookin for on partys like the fullmoon festival.....
Im not against evolution at all and I also find it fascinating how everything is evolving. I just dont like this "dark", or whatever you like to call it, stuff. I cant dance to it, it has no melody(I really like melodic tunes) and when I visit the Floor when Dark is being played(accidentially happened on the Ozora last year while tripping^^): all these dark people, twitching(not dancing) around the floor...cold atmosphere...I nearly felt like on a Goth party(visited some a few years ago), except there were more colors around
Yeah, call me that "spiritual goa hippie" stereotype...but in Darkstuff I miss the happy feelings and other emotions which I get from good Psy/Fullon/progressive/whatever stuff....
And regarding the Fullmoon: I am really happy that they have a dedicated Dark-Floor now. So I can be sure that no Darkstuff is being played on the Mainfloor (This time we will try not to camp as near to it as last year...we had a constant dark-bass sound at our camp^^)
To save space and time I cut the rest here...In case anyone feels offended about talking about insanity:
Sorry!
Cheers,
Kryten
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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Posted : Jun 9, 2010 16:31
never mind, never felt offended
just few thoughts, didnt want to mess around. anyways cant get all these stuff about weired ppl lookin crazy dancin not similiar to others. has always been, sooo.....
about the "spiritual goa hippie", never take personal.
but hey, theres a lot of "dark" which is very emotional and not only containing noizy and senseless shit, same like theres good progg stuff and really deep shit floatin around. sooo i dont like to lump that all together and put it in the same pot. at least there are many artists showin that music isnt ascertainable in any f*#$in genres, at the end it is irrational in it´s whole complex imao, but that besides many great "night time" psy artists also produce great "day"- or "chilltime" music. think about electrypnose, yabyum, ocelot just to name a few.....
so i simply dont share your opinion, thats beein said and i guess im not alone
