Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 00:11
Go to a big cemetry (To the middle - Where you 'surrounded' with many graves at 24:00 .. Smoke strong joint and sit on the bench 1 hour .. Close your eyes and say X10 times "I want made D A R K music .." Im sure some one there will come/Appear to help you ..
Moss
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 00:15
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Moss
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 00:17
Quote:
On 2011-08-19 22:49, mudpeople wrote:
Experiment a lot. Follow your crazy. Be weird. Have fun. Do it for a laugh.
Find a good program that works for you, they all have benefits and downsides, none of them are magic keys to quality sound. Try all of them if you can.
Find good synths that make the sounds you want. You don't have to pay or download either, there's so many great freeware, Ive been digging around for free VSTs for about 7 years now and still find hidden free gems. 90% of the plugins I use are free. For a good synth to start with I recommend Synth1, its pretty easy to use, and VERY easy to make cool sounds with. Ive used Synth1 since I started using VSTi's, and still f new sounds from it. Plus there's thousands of presets all over and even a preset generator.
For basslines, you can try using 303-emulators, Alien303 is good despite its reputation and will make dark-type basses without any effort or knob-tweaking and would make a great starter bass synth for a beginner. You can always replace it with something else later. My problem with the Alien303 is that it ONLY does Alien303 sound. But if its good enough, go for it! Don't forget that there are other bass synths, each with their own sound character. I recommend trying TAL Bassline and Elektrostudio Micromoon just to name 2, just to get an idea of other possibilities
Thats pretty much the bottom line; if it does what you want it to do (synths, fx, programs, whatever), use it! Its first about learning to properly use the tools that do the job you want to do. You can use an axe to pound a nail but a hammer does it so much better. Its pretty much like that.
I would say, get to know the style you want to make. Get to know how others do it, so you can take their ideas and build your own out of them. Get to know the general structure of it, like how long tracks usually are, how often changes happen, how many stops and starts there are, but not to copy them, only to understand what makes it different than other styles, and only in a basic sense.
There is no right way, and Id say the only wrong way to do it is to do it for any reason at all, except that you enjoy it. Not to impress people, not to be cool, not to party all the time, cuz none of those are going to happen... UNLESS your music is clean enough, interesting enough, and sounds like you're not just making music but, sorta connecting your heart to the computer and letting it download the music it always is making.
Its important too never take it too seriously. It WILL NOT be easy, it WILL NOT be quick, it WILL mean sitting at the computer for literal YEARS of your life, it WILL be frustrating...
But, with dedication, determination, willpower, and effort, eventually, you WILL be able to make your artistic vision real, your heart WILL sing through it, and all the effort will be worth it.
Trust yourself, too, when you think something sounds good, don't worry too much about just HOW good, or how unique it sounds. The sound can be fixed later, focus first on getting your whole idea out into the computer, try to finish a general outline of the track quickly, before you lose sight of the idea. Once you have the general skeleton of a track you're free to polish and mess around how you like.
Feel, more than think, when you're writing a track. Feel the rhythms hiding in it and ride them. They tend to tell you how they want to sound if you listen.
Thx mudpeople I already use alien for bassline and it s preety cool.
Its very easy to make good basline
I will try with Synth1 immediately.
What Vst u suggest for crazy FX???
Acidus give me some intresting link with some dark Vst
http://www.gersic.com/plugins/hosted/darkware/darkware.html what u think about those vst s
mudpeople
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 00:26
Id say anything that makes it easier for artistic visions to be realized is a good thing. Gimmicky preset-basses can always be replaced with other instruments, once one knows what they're doing. Plugins marketed specifically for recreating well-known psytrance techniques (Tekky Im looking your way) can be stepping stones, and Im optimistic, before too long the steppign stones' specialized usefulness is restrictive and one seeks more versatile tools by default.
Im thinking like a comic book illustrator I guess; start with rudimentary shapes, fill out figures, erase initial sketching, add more complex details, then once its all done, go over the pencil with ink, erase pencil.
But I get what you're saying aciduss, and why Alien303 and such have reputations. Its not the use of the plug, its the use of the plug TO IMITATE TALENT by individuals who want some kind of shortcut right-out-of-the-box magic wand that turns them from acid-casualty zombie-stomping around the dancefloor to Kindzadza overnight. The final product of such halfhearted efforts always ends up sounding just as halfhearted. The things that make great tracks great aren't specific techniques or sounds, its the artist's heart speaking to your own heart thru the music, and thats not something that can be taught or faked, and doesn't require any specific special tools at all. Can even be done with Alien303 basslines, Spiralator swells, and Tekky arpeggios.
To me the important thing is allowing the heart of an artist to share with the world its visions that otherwise might never have the chance to be enjoyed. The tools used to share it are as important as how many dreadlocks a cubic meter of dancefloor contains (3205, fyi).
Just, remember, OP, that steppign stones are great for getting across the stream, but when you want to get your feet wet, or even swim, they're not just useless, they're an obstacle. I have faith that if your heart is in it you'll want to swim, or fly, or deploy cybernetic multipurpose appendages that let you cross streams while baking bread, making coffee, stimulate your girlfriend's G-spot/boyfriend's prostate, all while rolling you another spliff and teaching you Farsi. In synthesizer/sample player/soundfont player/wavetable synthesizer/music maker form (sadly no software synth yet can make coffee, but I hear Buchla has a module that makes cappucino- with touch-sensitive control interface, Doepfer just has kettle and freeze-dried granule modules)
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mudpeople
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 00:54
Well, for crazy fx....
dblue Glitch
also;
Sugarbytes Artillery, Turnado, Effectrix (not free)
SupaTrigga
LiveCut
TAL Bitcrusher
Melda Productions MFreeBundle (individual fx, very high quality and 64bit DAW compatible, free)
Camel Phat and Camel Space(not free)
Ohm Force fx plugs(not free)
ArcDev Noise Industries plugs (Cyclotron and Skutterbug I particularly like)
I prefer to use individual fx in studio work, so whatever im working on gets effected just like i want it to. Dblue has a few of the fx from Glitch as standalones which is cool.
Experiment, youll probably have fun, but at first not really know what to do; read the manuals with the DAW open and plugins ready, that always helps me understand how to use them quickly. KEEP THE VOLUME LOW especially on the Glitch, ArcDev, and Ohm Force plugs, they can spike frequencies and possibly damage speakers AND EARS (capitalized, cuz those are important when making music).
The Glitch is pretty easy to use right out of teh box, its initial preset sounds decent enough to have fun with, but theres all sorts of possibilities when you know what you're doing with it. Sugarbytes' Effectrix is similar enough that if you know the Glitch you can jump right into it, and Turnado is like a Glitch with individual controls for each effect's wet/dry (on/off), and lots more that is better left for when you know what you're doing.
I would really say to start with, get the Melda bundle and just play with each one individually, get an idea of what effects do what. Then, when you listen to released darkpsy you'll start to hear what fx are used to make what sound and how they're layered to make more complex sounds, and activated or deactivated, etc. But its important first to learn what does what.
DON'T TOUCH ANY COMPRESSORS AT ALL. Those aren't something you need to worry about for a while. Compressors are effects used in the stage of production called the mixdown and shouldn't be used, AT ALL, unless you know EXACTLY HOW and WHY to use them. The mixdown is when the written track is cleaned up and all instruments' frequencies properly distributed so each is cleanly heard while sitting alongside all the others without overlapping and causing spikes. The mixdown is what beginners really are talking about when they ask how to master, all the cleanliness of pro's sound is done during that phase. But don't worry about that part yet.
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Moss
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 01:39
thx man u help me alot...
Its very good to meet people who want help without any money..
Im apriciate that very much..
Here is my first song made in FL studio.Now Im using cubase and im much better
I know its crap but im working very hard 1 year.
I was started to make music without any knowledge about music production,and im think its very good for begginer last 5 month i try get some good Equilazation and im learn how use Revrb and delay,LFo,... properly..
pls write a comment
Thx..
mudpeople
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 01:40
For now just work on learning hwo to use synths and your DAW and leave the rest for another time, if anything I posted is gibberish, ignore it til its not The best idea would be to work on getting the sounds you want BEFORE you add any fx plugs. I struggled when i started out, using effects thinking they would make a clean sound, and it was a great hurdle jumped over when I realized how much better, and quicker, it is to START with clean sound right from the instrument, and only add effects if needed, or to get a specific sound.
ImageLine has quite a few great synths, so you've got some good tools already. PoiZone can make some nice acid lines as well as basslines, Drumaxx is a great drum synth with tons of great presets. Toxic III or Biohazard is a beastly thing with lots of flexibility, Id say its a good one to learn general synthesis techniques. Ogun makes some great bells and metallic sounds.
To use a synth with multiple oscillators, for darkpsy, I find it best to turn off any LFOs, modulation envelopes, Unison settings, Glide settings, and anything else that might cause modulation. Typical dark basses have consistent sound that stays right in the bottom end of teh frequencies; modulation can cause them to wander. I also prefer to turn off any 2nd or 3rd oscillators which also can cause wandering. If teh synth is polyphonic you might want to switch it to monophonic. Most hardware bass synths, 303, SH101, Minimoog, Mopho, are all mono. Monophonic audio is easier to keep in one place in the stereo field, most darkpsy bass and kicks are monophonic, centered in the stereo field. (Try polyphony, and stereo too, theres no rule saying 'MONO ONLY', its simply easier to isolate the low frequencies if they're monophonic, making the kick and bass sound like they're coming from every direction, and also you don't need to worry about them interacting with anything with stereo-field effects like autopanning_)
Also if you're not already, come over to Triplag http://www.triplag.com/4room Theres plenty of artists regularly hanging out and no one hates darkpsy
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mudpeople
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 02:17
mudpeople
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Posted : Aug 20, 2011 19:13
I love talking about music, so any willing ears I can find are a good thing. Im no expert or anything but Ill gladly share any advice I can, anything to help others realize their internal visions externally, and hopefully add to the variety of enjoyable sounds to rock out hardcore stomping like a demon to .
Suloo
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Posted : Aug 21, 2011 02:02
Quote:
On 2011-08-19 23:10, aciduss wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-08-19 20:10, Zork wrote:
hey aciduss..im curious about this FM Spiralator..do you got that vst? since its not availoable anymore could you up the plugin maybe?
thx
There's the catch mate Only elite darkpsy producers own the Spiralator. Gatta work on being worthy dude, i'm tellin u.
Do you want the newest version? 1.03 ?
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Freymuth
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Posted : Aug 21, 2011 06:35
Very nice topic you are sending mudpeople.
I encounter myself in a simular situation like Moss, but I have been tweaking on the DAW, synth and plugs for a while.
Ive got a small idea of what they can do, so on this stage Im interested to dig in more deeply, and as you say, this art takes years to develop into a proper shape.
Can you give me some reference about sythesis or sound creation? Its the same literaly. I do konw a bit about it, like wave generation, the diferent types of waves and going up to the AMP envolope (A,D,S,R), filters and a bit of LFO, I quite like to play around with the pitch because its an easy efect to get enjoyable sounds from.
It would be great to add some new sounds to the bank, which are self made and understod.
I apreciate if you could help me.
mudpeople
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Posted : Aug 21, 2011 11:21
If you haven't already tried Wikipedia you can start there, lots of articles about specific synthesis techniques and audio manipulation. KVR forum's sound design section is a good place to ask for professional advice, lots of geeks on there happy to nerd out You also can find essays on synthesis by Googling the specific techniques. You can familiarize yourself with what sorts of hardware synths make what sounds on Vintage Synth Explorer, they have articles on most hardware that usually include videos, and the comments usually have plenty of experts willing to give advice.
Id say that analog style synthesis is a good starting point, its pretty straightforward and easier to get satisfying sound quickly once you get the basic ideas. Some of the best analog-emulator VSTs Ive found are the Elektrostudio plugs, they sound better to me than commercial virtual analogs and are just a whole hell of a lot of fun to play.
For a general idea of how to make sounds that are more weird than melodic, mess around with higher LFO settings, phase-modulation settings (PM), FM settings, play with the filter envelope (I usually like to keep filter envelopes sorta 'outside' the ampenvelopes). Synth1 is a great one with all those features, TAL Noisemaker is another good weird-noise synth and lets you make crazy envelopes basically hand-drawn.
I don't want anyone to think Im some kind of expert, but Ive been working at it for long enough and searching the cyberworld for new and different plugs for long enough that I can point you in the right direction. If you're interested in how I make my sounds, I can definitely share them, but I don't really know all the technical details of everything, I just know what sounds I like And they tend not to be typical dark style sounds, I like melodic elements, warm analog sounds, and a generally smooth and flowing sound more than harsh craziness (Triplag, again, is a great place to get ideas on how to make the crazy stuff).
Ill answer whatever questions I can, and if I cant I probably know somewhere or someone who can. The best advice for starting out is general outlines that you can use to play around with to find the sounds that you really enjoy. Find some good ones that are fun to play with that don't get too complicated, Ive always found that I have the most fun making my own sounds just messing around without really paying much attention to technique and when you make some sounds you really like it makes all teh work worthwhile ;D
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Freymuth
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Posted : Aug 21, 2011 21:38
Nice, thanx for the great amount of usefull information.
I have been playing around with the Sylenth1 synthesiser, which probably goes in the digital synthesizer category, im not realy sure. The diference I see on analog and digital is that the analog is hardware and digital software, is that right?
The way I see sound design is for sure messing around with the settings, but if I have a better understanding of what some peticular knob does I can anticipate better the sound Im going for and understand better what I listen to in the music. I realy enjoy electrypnose, kindzadza and psykovsky for the sounds they produce, but yes, would like to make a fusion with the wierd sounds and some melodies. So lets say more a night full-on.
The Triplag and KVR realy look like a very good place to get info from, will dig into it as soon as I can.
Thanx again for beeing so receptive, had a look on an other topic yesterday where you where discussing this kind of topic. We are making allways the same kind of questions and many better productors get bored from it. In my view I see you as a person who knows a bunch of this and is looking for to see what you realy know helping us So this helps us and makes you better too!
Hope im not wrong with my theory and I wish you the best.
mudpeople
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Posted : Aug 22, 2011 06:09
The main difference between digital and analog hardware is how they make the oscillators, analog synths use CV, control voltage, which is an actual flow of electricity that is oscillated to create a sound.
Digital synths create their oscillators more like software, but often digital hardware synths have some kind of circuitry that software doesn't to give them less of the software sound, I think, Im not entirely sure the details Just that they're basiclaly computers that create sounds, or somethign liek that...
I can't make a claim that Im an expert or anythineg, but I can claim that Im a synth geek, and Ive tried just about every software plugin that seemed interesting that I could find. There are some pretty strange and unique sounding softsynths out there, and its been the hope to uncover more that has kept me searching for others.
It really does help me get better, I dont often think about these sorts of things until someone asks, and when one offers advice, its also a test of whether its good advice or not. I just know how many bad habits Ive devleloped and gotten rid of over the years so Im usually waiting for someone who knows better to come along and call me a silly fool for doing it that way and should give up music. Not really, they come along and share hthe better ways which means not only do I discover anotehr bad habit I learn the proper way
Its my pleasure to share, I do it all the time with friends and my girlfriend, all of whom are kind enough not to tell me they don't really understand or care and let me babble. Finding someone who actually WANTS to hear me babble is rare
I just don't want you to think of me as an expert, all my advice comes from a long time spent sitting at teh computer messing around with knobs, I can't claim that I know proper techniques but I know how to make sounds that I enjoy I just dont want you or anyone to take my advice and end up with their own bad habits as a result of my bad advice. But lately much to my surprise Ive found real experts actually agreeing with my advice which is a good sign.
I haven't ever been able to think of a prer name for the style I usually end up making, its faster than fullon, more bright sounding than typical dark stuff, has lots of analog style sounds, often has acid synth sounds (I really, really love 303s, they're the reason I started exploring electronic music)... I just call it 'my psytrance' or sometimes 'my proggy psy' or now and then 'my psytech' and once I made something I can only describe as noise-glitch-downtempo in 3/4 time, somehow thats what i ended up with when I tried making hiphop beats
Im happy too that my curse of a memory is doing something positive, usually it just reminds me of stupid things Ive done
I realized recently that putting my advice into tutorials would make it much easier to share and my wrists would definitely thank me
I have faith that if your heart is in it you'll want to swim, or fly, or deploy cybernetic multipurpose appendages that let you cross streams while baking bread, making coffee, stimulate your girlfriend's G-spot/boyfriend's prostate, all while rolling you another spliff and teaching you Farsi. In synthesizer/sample player/soundfont player/wavetable synthesizer/music maker form 
