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DAC question...
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MadScientist
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 14:52:25
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Apogee Mini-DAC vs Benchmark DAC-1 vs Lavry Black DA-10 vs Lavry Blue vs Mytek Digital Stereo96 DAC
what do you guys think about these?
right now I'm leaning towards a Lavry Blue system, because its modular and you re able to place also ADCs and other stuff in it later on...also the quality should be better than the rest from what I heard now.
  https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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PoM
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 15:40
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lavryblue cause it s "modular" ,in the end it may cost you less and the quality is  or the da10 ,they should sound the same . |
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Tomos
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 15:48
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I have the DAC-1 and haven't heard any others, so can't compare. After upgrading pretty much everything else including the room acoustics, it did add a slight noticeable depth and focus to things.
You have to understand that when you are spending a small fortune on upgrades, there is no one upgrade that is going to change your sound completely.
I noticed a slight difference with a DAC upgrade, but really, how much better can you make sound when you you've got great monitors and good acoustics.
Every step is a small one when it comes to upgrading sound. If I went back to my on-board soundcard and cheap first monitors in one step there would be a massive difference. But its taken a lot of cash and time to get to a level I'm completely happy with.
After reading all the different reviews, I bought the DAC-1 purely because of sound quality, price and features.
I needed a volume knob for my active speakers, 2 x headphone sockets, various inputs, plus I think the silver version looks really kick-ass.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. The Lavry would have been my second choice.
I'm sure you've seen it but there was a Lavry vs DAC-1 comparison here:
http://www.studioreviews.com/dac1-da10.htm
Despite this, I still chose the DAC-1
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MadScientist
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 16:03
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thanx so far guys...about the da-10, I heard the converters are different than the ones from the blue version and sound not even as good as the dac-1.
and its almost the same price like a lavry blue with 2ch dac.
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 16:27
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I own the DA10...
afaik, the blue is a simplified version of the black, though converter-wise it's pretty much the same thing there - but has also the modular option, which makes it a good choice, though you do need a monitor controller for it.
I'm very pleased with how DA10 works.
It's click-less when I turn it on/off, it has a pre-delay if I change a setting, etc.
I never heard the dac1 though in my room with my setup, and that's the only way to tell a difference after all.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 16:50
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I'm considering upgrading to a Benchmark DAC1 or Lavry DA10 myself.
Currently i'm using a RME Fireface 400 with my Klein + Hummel O300 monitors & i feel that i'm not really doing my high-end monitors justice.
Since i cannot audition the DACs myself i'm relying on forums & so far i've been getting mixed feedback. So i'm not really sure if spending $1'000 on a new DAC will be really beneficial or not.
I've also got room treatment covered so upgrading the DAC seems like the next logical step.
Tomos, what were you using before you upgraded to the DAC1 & did you feel much of a difference?
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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PoM
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 18:57
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-26 16:03, MadScientist wrote:
thanx so far guys...about the da-10, I heard the converters are different than the ones from the blue version and sound not even as good as the dac-1.
and its almost the same price like a lavry blue with 2ch dac.
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humm i think i have read from lavry himself they sound the same,the converters and cirucits are exactly the same if i m right, just there is a level control on the da10 |
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 20:15
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Disclaimer : My post is off topic because i'm following a lot of threads regarding the "Is there any noticeable difference when getting a dedicated dac?" issue and somehow i thought that this was the case here as well. But i was obviously wrong and realized it after writing my following "article" 
You can skip reading it as there's no useful info regarding the question from the original poster.
The debate regarding if there is a noticeable difference and how much of it when someone upgrades from a very good audio interface's converters to an entry level dedicated dac will always be around no matter what.
In my case, the difference was very noticeable, i'd dare to say night and day BUT my change was very radical. From the Saffire Pro 10 converters + Mackie HR624 i immediately jumped to the KH 0300 + DAC-1.
I suppose adding any quality dac later in the chain would really diminish the wow effect i had, simply because when everything else is covered, high end monitors make most of the difference. And the later added dac will just fill in the blanks and depending on its quality it will fill all of them or most of them.
In any case, i believe that any of the dacs mentioned here, will make a noticeable difference but there are some factors that could be the reason for anyone to say that they don't.
First is, how able is any of us to really hear, understand and focus exactly where and what the difference is in order to evaluate the necessity of a dedicated dac.
Another thing is the style of music being produced. It certainly is very important to have great DA conversion for acoustic music and live recorded instruments or vocals(and maybe more important in this case to have excellent AD conversion), but for ITB producing i don't know if it's equally important.
Again, in my case after the first shock and after i got really used to the new sound i just did a very simple test. I just listened again to a number of previous mixes i had done before upgrading. Well, one thing is for sure. They sucked big time!!! And the funny thing is that they were sounding very good already on other systems that i tried them. But after the upgrade i just heard so many mistakes, dirty sounds or loops that i didn't know where to start from. But they were sounding good simply because all the normal systems being low quality were masking all these problems.
Anywayz, now i feel very confident with my monitoring chain and i'm sure that whatever i mix will sound superb anywhere and more importantly in a high end audiophile system, because i'd really hate someone to come and tell me "Hey, your stuff is good but it sound like shit in my high end blahblahblah system",
since i'm an audio perfectionist as well.
IMO, a quality dac is necessary because it's primary job is to reveal all the problems of any sound source and therefore make it possible to fix, change or not use a specific sound.
I don't care if the difference is even so minor(for example a very small amount of noise in a sound or some irritating freq) that's only audible because of what the dac is capable to reveal, because when you pile up tracks all these(inaudible otherwise) "problems" add up and while you have objectively a great mix you are not satisfied 100% because there's still "something" bothering you that you can't even identify what it is even after you've tried everything.
What matters to me is to be able to hear the slightest detail of the sound especially the problematic part of it, but that's just me!!!
It was a long post so I rest my case and 
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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MadScientist
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 20:20
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nice opinions so far 
I know that its told that the converters are identically, but I read on gearsluts from a guy who owned both that the blue sounds a bit better than the black.
tomos, you got the usual or the usb version of the dac-1?
EDIT: nice thoughts alex, but what dac would you get? (I know you got the dac-1 too  ) just with a view thats in no way on the money...probably I'll need a adc and a 2nd dac too in a bit more time, to record analog fx for example...this is the thing leading me to the blue, but I dont know exactly if its maybe better to have all single than filling a box from time to time....another thing I'm not sure about is if you can build new components yourself into the blue, or if you got to have it done and pay for it.
EDIT2: another thing I cant find any info on, do those dacs have a wordclock that I could also send to my interface? I dont think so... https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 20:58
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MadScientist, it really depends on your future needs regarding the Lavry Blue. If you are certain that you are gonna need the modularity that offers then i say go for it. Sonically i don't know how it compares to the others but i suppose they all are on the same level more or less.
If it was me i'd get a separate DA converter and a separate AD converter. Depending on my set up(line sources, mics) the ADC would be from 2 to 8 channels and it would be fed by a clean submixer for my synths and other line sources and the rest of the ADC inputs would be reserved for the mics.
I know i still didn't answer your question but i'll tell you which one i wouldn't get and that is the mini-DAC.
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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MadScientist
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 21:25
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hehe ok thanx alex...I'm almost on the same thought
I'm also more in for a lavry or the benchmark, just wanted to know if the other can compare at all.
about the thing with the blue, I'm also thinking that its maybe better to have seperate ad and da converters...but if I go that far, I would also need a 2nd dac to feed a compressor for example and go back to the adc. thats why I think about the blue, maybe its a bit too much to have even 3 or more boxes around...
you got any clue about the clock thing btw?
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Tomos
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 21:33
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Before the DAC-1 I was using unbalanced RCA from an M-Audio 2496 card. I don't need any inputs or outputs on this computer so I went for simplicity in my sound card. But I realise the converters are far from brilliant.
I have Adam P-33A monitors and I use the standard SPDIF version of the DAC, I saw no point in using up a USB slot and it costing more on top.
Some notes and my experience with the DAC-1
After I plugged the box in and let it warm up I played some songs through it. I wasn't exactly sure what had changed. I didn't want to kid myself that spending a load of cash had instantly improved everything so I was very critical.
It was strange, everything was different, but it wasn't better or worse initially.. just different and quite subtle. Later I decided it was better for a number of reasons.
The differences took a while to notice and adjust to:
Increased depth (like longer lasting reverb before it became inaudible)
A much better sense of positioned instruments. Less masking. Panning was instantly improved.
High frequency clarity - especially on the ADAM tweeters.
Stereo width increased.
Non-exaggerated bass and mids.
Much less fatiguing to listen to (which I attribute to less distortion)
It also fixed an effect for me which I've termed 'Ghost Frequencies' When doing EQ adjustments before, my soundcard would produce tiny resonance when notching which was impossible to remove - because it didn't really exist to be removed! EQ was driving me nuts hunting down rouge frequencies, now I use minimal EQ and things some much better.
Imaging - I know I mentioned sounds were positioned better, but this is something different. Before the DAC I had to move noticeably closer to the left speaker to hear mono centred sounds in the middle. I had checked all my volumes and cables yet the effect still it was present. With the DAC the mono centre was restored perfectly between the speakers.
I guess it took me a while to notice all of these things because I never realised they were wrong in the first place. This may sound like a lot of improvements, and it is, but they are all quite subtle.
I believe my music has improved as a result though, which is the main thing.
I am the same as Alex in that I feel I need to hear every little thing that is wrong in the mix.. knowing how to fix it is another matter though |
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MadScientist
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 21:41
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thanx tomos...those are exactly the reasons why I want to get one.
does anyone now have a clue if those converters produce a wordclock now? I cant see any wordclock in or out at least at the rear of the dac-1...
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Ghost Host
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 21:41
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How about Aurora from Lynx? She got superb A/D and D/A all in one box + you got 8 or 16 channels in case you want to sum in the future 
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MadScientist
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 21:44
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too expensive for now 
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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