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cubase vs. ableton live
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 24, 2013 22:29
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cant talk b out cubase coz i used it very few
but ableton :
session view s like one of the best things ever created for musical creation. ableton live s closed mind....it wants you to work in a pre determinted way it was based on... which is the session view..but once u understand what it was made , you just fall in love.
racks specialy drum racks s just great.... if u get into ableton style of working you wont be usin drum racks only for drums but for many other things.... you can have a drum rack with full sets of the favourite synths you have created to JAM TRIGGERING as exemple.
to sum up ableton may remind more of the old school style of working which s TRACKING .... but in a modern and digitaly way.
if you are usin ableton live in the arrangment view... pls trow it in the trash....
bad parts now.
the audio engine s the worse from all the daws... from stretch logaritims to the main output...
altho this s said to be unoticeable , some people DO NOTICE and you can find all those people all over hte internet realy pissed off bout it. so if you do a lot of stretching or s lookin for the best possible audio quality ableton s not the way to go.
horrible midi clock time. like the above situation. the worse midi clock time from all the main daws. higher jitterin compared to any other daw and
its like impossible to sync ableton live in an external gear in 100 per cent perfect time, now if u do the oposite ( syncin stuffs to ableton ) then you might live with it...but still jitterin will always be part of your life.
if u work with external gear this turns you realy sad coz session view s so great so u have to get used with those midi time problem , bout the audio engine you can always mix ur tracks into another daw so you can ignore it if u aint usin the arrange view .....
at the moment i work with ableton live syncing reaper for the audio engine of reaper.
but hopefuly bitwig will have fixed all those things that ableton have neglated to fix and they also have the session view 
so ableton s like the software that makes you feel dualities...you love and hate it at the same time.
cubase i had used for a ver yshort time and a long time ago and didnt even had enough knownledge to judge it but i m usin reaper to do what cubase s supposed to do good and im havin tons of fun plus its realy cheap and you dont even have to buy it if u can live with a EVALUATE VERSION in the top of the soft.
 
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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2822
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 05:45
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"ableton's audio engine is worse than other DAWs"
is incorrect. Show me some hard evidence of what you claim.
Sure, its not perfect in every way. Reaper is much more CPU efficient. But I've never noticed a difference in 'audio quality' or 'audio engine' between logic/reaper/cubase/ableton. they're all capable of putting out professional quality stuff assuming you have the required skill to do so.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 25, 2013 09:50
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they all do quality stuff but still ableton live output degrades the audio ....evidence ? use ur ears....record a external synth line and play it in ableton and other daw...doesnt matter even if u recorded it in ableton.... in other daw it ll be brighter than in ableton unless you are with the warp setting OFF but to use non warped audio s crazy since it wont be synced in time and yea i know bout all the different warping settings and bla bla bla.
you cant realy compare 2 softwares where one was made with focus in midi and live response of audio and midi without delay where the other was made with focus in audio...
obviously the one that was made to audio will have better response into audio and thats why reaper as exemple lacks many features of midi where ableton rocks....
so altho you can do ( obviously dont know even why this need to be mentioned )quality stuff in ableton you can find better audio engines in other softwares.
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 10:31
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Hasn't it been already proven that all DAWs just add numbers and that the output is the same?
I haven't used Cubase since Cubase VST and I don't use Ableton, but a few years ago a link was posted on some site with proper tests and that all DAWs just do mathematical calculations....i.e. adding 1+1 equaled 2 in all DAWs.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
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1151
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 10:49
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-25 10:31, Nectarios wrote:
Hasn't it been already proven that all DAWs just add numbers and that the output is the same?
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+1!
From a programmers point of view, this debate is really futile.. no matter which system a float is a float and a double is a double (between DAWs in the same system of course.. now between 32 and 64 bit OS the float gains double it's precision, while and the double remain equal). Nevertheless, each implementation might have some small differences, that might be noticeable in very particular situations - the people here are trying to point them out, but I think that they should post actual results, and try inverting the phase on the tracks to see if there is total cancellation: there's nothing like hard evidence to back up a statement. Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Taisto
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
252
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 10:53
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Even there is ''evidence'' that DAWs summing should be similar, but i feel it would be more normal that if they are varying like different audio interfaces varied. Its hard to believe that summing is equal if there is totally different engineers combining it all together in totally different working environments..
Just my opinion and ratiocination of the subject 
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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8087
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 10:58
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just how the daws handle dithering can make a difference , but it seems daws sound identical when playing a audio file/bouncing wihtout touching anyhting and properly set up (it dont say much about real use with load of tracks, using faders ect..) |
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Taisto
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
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252
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 16:33
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Yes, spot on PoM!
In theory they sound same but practically they make a big difference.. They just representing a different styles of making music, what you should do is try every one of them to know what suits/sounds best to your own purposes..
But thats demands that you have to know what you are after and what you want to reach for it..
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
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3207
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 16:58
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-25 10:31, Nectarios wrote:
Hasn't it been already proven that all DAWs just add numbers and that the output is the same?
I haven't used Cubase since Cubase VST and I don't use Ableton, but a few years ago a link was posted on some site with proper tests and that all DAWs just do mathematical calculations....i.e. adding 1+1 equaled 2 in all DAWs.
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I've said lots about it years ago on several topics but haven't posted any link, couse have all my infos from lectureres and engineers from SAE and Steinberg. Would be very interesting if someone could put it up ( the link to the tests), eventhough it is simple and logic that they must sound all different.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 17:10
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-25 09:50, Vermeee wrote:
they all do quality stuff but still ableton live output degrades the audio ....evidence ? use ur ears....record a external synth line and play it in ableton and other daw...doesnt matter even if u recorded it in ableton.... in other daw it ll be brighter than in ableton unless you are with warp setting OFF but to use non warped audio s crazy since it wont be synced in time and yea i know bout all the different warping settings and bla bla bla.
you cant realy compare 2 softwares where one was made with focus in midi and live response of audio and midi without delay where the other was made with focus in audio...
obviously the one that was made to audio will have better response into audio and thats why reaper as exemple lacks many features of midi where ableton rocks....
so altho you can do ( obviously dont know even why this need to be mentioned )quality stuff in ableton you can find better audio engines in other softwares.
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"Use your ears" is not a 'hard fact' - this is just your own subjective opinion and nothing else.
I mean, just look at the user base of ableton. Thousands and thousands of pro musicians produce and perform with it constantly. If it *really* was sub-par compared to other audio engines then there would be a massive outcry from the user base or an exodus to another, better DAW.
Fuck, I bet you don't even know what an 'audio engine' is or how its programmed or what makes one different from the other. I sure as hell don't.
I just wish people would stop spouting the same, old, untrue bullshit about ableton or any other 'audio engine'.
What matters is YOU, not the software (assuming you're not using a Tracker from 1995 or something that is...) If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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108
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Posted : Sep 25, 2013 19:27
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so keep yourself with ur ignorance, i dont care.....
warping settings will degrade the audio even if in the best option.... you dont even need to be good at listening.... and im not even talkin bout the quality of the artist u ignorant..... use any sample pack or use your own quality material..... after warping the material will have difference... FAR FROM BEIN TRANSPARENT... this for me means to degrade the audio...be it for the good or not.
so the only way ableton would not degrate the audio is if u dont warp.... but then its unesable.
and you are so fuckin ignorant that you are bein agressive tryin to prove that ableton s capable of doin profesioal stuff which this isnt even questionable....obviously ableton s capable of doin good quality stuff but it dont change the fact that WARPIN SETTINGS IN ABLETON DO DEGRADE THE AUDIO....
so keep cryin you stupid cunt bout those half thousand dollars you wasted on that software coz i dont give a shit...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
1069
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 19:32
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-25 10:31, Nectarios wrote:
Hasn't it been already proven that all DAWs just add numbers and that the output is the same?
I haven't used Cubase since Cubase VST and I don't use Ableton, but a few years ago a link was posted on some site with proper tests and that all DAWs just do mathematical calculations....i.e. adding 1+1 equaled 2 in all DAWs.
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so why dont you try for yourself instead of holdin your arguments based on "a maybe one day i read that all the outputs sound the same" this doesnt seem to be very scientifical for someone so scientifical...not considerin that if you are usin as arguments forums and articles of internet... in the same ocean you will find tons talkin bout how audio engine sounded different from other daws and there s even a official post from ableton in the days of the version 7 which they were assumin they need some revisit in the audio engine but then it was never talked again.
for me i clearly hear my audio changin doesnt matter if it s my shit recorded material from my nord or mastered tracks in wav that i use for djing.....
per exemple.... the best settings for dj setin s to use REPITCH but then you loose a little of the air of the track...
for twisted sounds you d be usin TEXTURE but then you are loosin transient of the audio...
etc etc
for percusive stuffs like drums etc you best be usin BEATS but then any little process u cause in this audio it ll get clicks
its like you always have to sacrifice something to make other in evidence....
lets not even consider HOW STUPID is to have to adjust logarith settings for all the audio otherwise it ll be soundin "WRONG".
in other daws you have much more freedom for the audio manipulation without degradation of the source.
anyway not that it worth your time ...
so to sumup
ABLETON AUDIO ENGINE SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
ABLETON SESSION VIEW ROCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
sorry but there s no perfect software.
and dont fuckin ask me the link of the post from ableton talkin bout the revision of the audio engine....
you can find it in google googlin people complainin the shities of it.
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
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104
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1047
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 21:50
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-25 19:27, Vermeee wrote:
so the only way ableton would not degrate the audio is if u dont warp.... but then its unesable.
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Could you care to exploit this statement? I mean, what warping have to do with the "useness" level of the DAW? If you think this way, so Cubase is useless if you don´t use Time Warp (wich is not avaiable till version 5 I guess).
When I´m hearing fresh tracks from artists, I subjectvly fell the DAW sound. For me, Logic is always "fat", Cubase is "detailed" and Live is "messy". But its for finished tracks, wich have not similar plugs.
I will try to make a test, but from my math/dsp little knowledge, the summing should be the same on all DAWs.
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
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1069
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 22:22
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coz if you dont warp you cant manipulate the audio... in cubase it syncs in time different from ableton...as exemple...if i dont warp the audio and i change the bpm the audio wont change the speed and you wont be able to do stretchtments....
this messy thing u talked i d easily associated part of it coz of the warpin settings....
the best way to test by urself besides the warpin settings is mix the same track in ableton and other in another daw and see the difference.
at any moment the track in ableton will sound BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD but it can sound BETTER if mixed in other daw.
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
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1047
Posted : Sep 25, 2013 22:52
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A question: the d/a converter has something "conected" to the DAW audio engine? Or is it only a soundcard issue?
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