Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 4, 2009 11:31
I want this thread to come BACK!
I find derango to have beautiful flow... especially on Tumult.
Automation is your friend imo, when creating flow.. subtle changes building up over time.
gutter
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Posted : Dec 4, 2009 12:27
Quote:
On 2009-08-06 16:28:24, Ascension wrote:
I thought I'd throw this topic up for discussion. What kind of techniques do you guys use to create a sense of flow in your tracks while still keeping things interesting? This latest track I'm working on I made a lead, then duplicated that channel and messed with the settings (waveforms, type of filter, changed lfo settings, etc). I think it gives the track a sense of flow since the sounds are somewhat similar, but with different amounts of movement/texture (the patterns the leads follow are rhythmically similar, but the actual sound of each lead is different).
As far as keeping it interesting and to make it not seem repetitive I only use certain fxs in one phrase of the track and moved some of the pads around/played with some filter sweeps. I think I'm also gonna experiment with doing something like using an fx sound only during a breakdown so that section sounds more unique than the rest of the track and breaks up the reuse of previous sounds.
I dunno where this topic is gonna go, but feel free to share some of your ideas/techniques and make some comments/suggestions on other people's methods. This doesn't necessarily have to be about psytrance tracks as I was referring to above, I really need to work on creating flow in my downtempo tracks so any advice in that area would help too.
im doing that with leads too, also another way to fill the spectrum is to have a pattern like ie:
(consider every space a 16th and every X a note, more X together a longer note)
XX___XX___XXXX___XX__X___XX___X__X
play that pattern with a squelch/acid/fm sound tb like etc with whatever settings you like , unison, delay (pre/post)
and the next pattern is the the opposite of the first like:
__XXX__XXX____XXX__XX_XXX__XXX_XX_
now on the synth tweak the sound to a similar timbre as the first but in another "spot" of the spectrum, like if the first has more presence @ 2-3K the second to be @ 1-2K , these are values in bulk, so you can also filter sweep the first to open and the second to close etc etc, goa stuff was made like this
I think the more complicated the music becomes is like taking these patterns, keep the pattern and break more of the notes and phrases to smaller different sounds with similar timbres, or make some notes longer with instant sweeps etc etc .
Then because the whole thing will probably sound too much filled and this is not always desirable you can cut parts or silent them and experiment with the feedback of the delays to make them flow better and be audible easier, here something important is again the timbre of each sound and not to overlap with others and the coherence between the sounds altogether, like nice tails wherever needed, pay attention to the feedback of the delay so the next sound starts in tempo/ or create a new groove etc
i think with this way i can make big phases of 16 bars that will always evolve into something and give drive
and of course the percussion, which can slow down to earth with conga/bongos etc or push things even more faster with open hi hat, closet fast ones etc etc
still experimenting
Quote:
On 2009-08-09 01:57, Medea wrote:
any examples of tracks with good or bad "sense of flow"?
two excellent comes to mind
unfolding sounds everywhere atriohm are masters to that, respect
and the driving good vibes by the tall guy
Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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Posted : Dec 4, 2009 19:36
gutter
Inactive User
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Posted : Dec 7, 2009 10:28
Quote:
On 2009-12-04 20:10, Ascension wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-04 19:56, aciduss wrote:
Hey gutter mind if you explain that pattern again?
I understand it as each character a 16th:
BAR1:
XX__/_XX_/__XX/XX__
BAR 2:
_XX_/_X__/_XX_/__X_
Remains:
_X
i think i am confused... i love patterns but this one is strange... would be nice if u explained
I think he said that if 2 X's are next to each other, it's a longer note (ie- XX = 1/8th note).
i didnt explain it right .. basically the pattern doesnt even matter its the combination that matters and the sounds to match.
the pattern could be like,
it may seem funny, but just to explain it a bit better
tata---tata---taaaaaa---tata---tata--
and the other
----tat----tat-------tat----tat----
basically there are so many different combinations you can do
an easy way i can think of to make smthng interesting is to take a multitimbral synth like sylenth ie, make four midi tracks with the patterns, design the sound for the first pattern, save it as preset and open the same sound for the second/third/fourth midi tracks and tweak each one a bit different, but to match timbre-wise, automate opposite to the others, ie the first slowly open the filter, the second to start open and slowly close, or two sounds to graduate slowly but with time difference like when the first has reached half the cutoff open, the other to be 1/3 open , like following the first one etc etc
hope that seems more simple
seaone
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Posted : Jan 28, 2010 09:22
Quote:
On 2009-12-04 19:36, Fragletrollet wrote:
Listening to a track over and over is the ultimate flow-breaker. Let the track breathe for a few days or weeks or more if your patient, then when you listen to it again youll know exactly what to do
That's one of the best advices for this matter! Also that could easily be applied in life for creating and doing things in general ;-)
Developing the patience is very important too.
Kryten
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 28, 2010 10:43
Very nice topic. Thanks so far to all for the great input!
minddoctorsmakeacid
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Posted : Jan 28, 2010 11:42
Quote:
On 2009-12-05 00:58, Medea wrote:
Quote:
Let the track breathe for a few days or weeks or more if your patient, then when you listen to it again youll know exactly what to do
It gives great results indeed, but it's very difficult to be patient )
It is dificult indeed but if you work in 4 tracks at a time you can allways jump from one another whenever you feel like it...
makus
Overdream
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Posted : Jan 29, 2010 12:45
Quote:
On 2009-12-04 19:36, Fragletrollet wrote:
Let the track breathe for a few days or weeks or more if your patient, then when you listen to it again youll know exactly what to do
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Posted : Jan 29, 2010 13:06
Quote:
On 2009-08-06 22:38, aciduss wrote:
I believe it is all about making your audience remember details only to be surprised later on by a twist while bringing that memory back.
+111111
It is like a story. or a trip. its like putting you in a train and show you many places, but you are still in this train. hard to explain but this is my favorite trick in psychedelic music.
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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Posted : Jan 31, 2010 12:39
Quote:
On 2009-12-04 19:36, Fragletrollet wrote:
Listening to a track over and over is the ultimate flow-breaker. Let the track breathe for a few days or weeks or more if your patient, then when you listen to it again youll know exactly what to do
+1 on that !!!! patience is the key and i use to split my work into different parts to not overload the ears and also to get some more objective feeling to the track.
so i.e. i first start to focus on creating sounds and stuff i wanna use until this is finished. i separate this process from my arrangement process, with this i will start when theres enough stuff work with. also this i separate again from things like mixdown etc. sure ones correcting things on the fly here and there between. but i really keep few days between things to have a new and better listen free of any overload of my hearing.
anyway i think "flow" is something you got in blood, i ean it´s your own taste of feeling to rythms and this sure connected to your actual mood and emotions. but i separate here between workflow and flow of the track, maybe this question could be some more precise which flow is meant....
PoM
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Posted : Feb 1, 2010 00:34
separate the process ,i think you re right about that, i try to separate production and making music the most i can,i make a beat and mix it ,some small banks on a few synths, i set my fxs , after that i can focus more on making music,mixing everything is a flow killer for me.
also the state of trance you are in when writing the track , if you have lot energie to give or not all that will influence the flow and intelligence of the track for dancefloors .
atriohm are masters to that, respect
