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crazy!!!!!!!!!!
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___pini
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Posted : Apr 2, 2001 22:05:29
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after i read boris answer i think i am going crazy.
boris says that creamware sound card worth shit,
but guy said that the electra(creamware)is fucking great.
people i need your help.which sound card should i buy |
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___pini
Old Forum Member
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Posted : Apr 5, 2001 15:03:45
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i am stiil waiting |
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___yuli
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Posted : Apr 5, 2001 22:30:09
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Hey man,
It's also matter of opinion and of what is exactly do u want to do with the card and what equipment u already have?
My opinion about creamware is that I don't like them too much ( especially because of Pulsar ) but I can understand some that get the packages of creamware - is sort of all in one kinda thing, I wouldn't go for it but it's once again a matter of opinion.
Instead I would go for a strong card such as Gina or Layla or many more of these, and go for a strong board + processor and then make my music from a sequencer ( Cubase, Logic etc. ) using the plugs and the instruments they offer. I think this deal is better for especially for those who have MIDI instruments but also for those that want to operate a 'Virtual Studio' in their PC. The reason is that u will still have ability to use other programs ( wave editors and such ) which is impossible ( or hard ) with Pulsar and it's family.
Cheers |
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___pini
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Posted : Apr 6, 2001 00:49:08
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i have a powerfull pc p-3(866 mhz)with ASUS (cucl-2)board,256 ram,matrox g-450 screen card and two 17'screen.
my equipment:
*fat-freebass
*e-mu esi-4000 with 32 ram.
*midi control (with 12 controler)
*eurorack mx602a mixer(6 channel)
*cubase VST 5(cracked)
my budget for the sound card is 3000 nis.
i want to oprate a 'virtual studio' in my pc because i don't have enough money to invaste in
synth.
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___yuli
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Posted : Apr 6, 2001 12:54:54
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So go and look for second hand Gina or first hand Layla and u will have a very powerfull environment to make music in. Dont get tempted by the beautiful wrappings of creamware - u don't need this... After some time u might want to add some powerfull synth - such as JP8000, 'Q', Supernova, Nord Modular and u will have a very good and ballanced studio. Meanwhile u will have to investigate all these vst instruments and such so it's not too bad either.
Good luck |
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___pini
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Posted : Apr 7, 2001 18:30:12
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yuli, thank you for your advise.
i would like to know if the layla/gina have MIDI in/out,and what i get except the sound card,if i buy the echo sound card?
a bout something else.i need a drive with scsi a dapted for my sampler which can supporting my sampler,what do you reommend to buy(i dont have money to buy h.d scsi)?
BTW-how much cost the layla?
where i can get the vst instruments free or should i have to buy it?
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___yuli
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Posted : Apr 7, 2001 21:54:55
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About Layla/Gina cards, I guess they have Midi in/out but as one that doesn't have one of those I wouldn't talk too much about them - all I know is that some friends of mine use these cards and find them very good in what they do. I myself use Gadget Labs Wave8*24 card with XLR inputs and outputs in the main and also SPDIF connection. It's very good and I enjoy it quite a lot ( the only problem about it is that the company no longer exists... )
About a drive supporting your sampler -
I also own an ESI and I use an EZFlyer-230mb cartridge drive from SyQuest ( one more company that no longer exists... ) I never used it plugged into SCSI in the PC though which can b intreresting + the processing and the quality of the samples. EMU generally have a very poor service after u paid for your stuff there is no one to talk to ( in comparison with AKAI for instance ) but the SCSI connection to external drive is very good and no complaints. I guess u can get one for around 1000 - 1200 NIS but I am not so sure - Check out the 'ALODA' place on the corner of Sheinkin st. and Rotschild blvd. in T-A they supposed to b the best and the cheapest in the portable drive buseness
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___pini
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Posted : Apr 11, 2001 18:58:21
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yuli yesterday i went to "music shop",to asking
a bout the gina sound card.
this is the deal that they offer me,the gina cost
2700 nis+midi card with 2 midi inputs and midi outputs.
but they said to me that the gina won't fit my
demands because:
1.of you want tp work with the gina to create the
final mix/mastering you need to do it outside the
pc with a pro mixer (something that i can't effor
to buy in this moment).
2.you can't work with cubase in parallel other prog and vst instruments.
*the gina be determined for those who have MIDI instruments.
they said to me that if i want operate a 'Virtual Studio' in my pc i should buy the electra or the
power sampler(2600 nis)or the electra+virtual sampler sts 3000(3000 nis).to both cards have only
2 inputs/outputs.
they also said to me that if one day i will want to oprate my studio and to work with midi instruments i can add to the electra the luna 24@96 i/o box(unit with 8 inputs and 8 outputs!)
what do you think? |
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___yuli
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Posted : Apr 11, 2001 20:27:38
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I don't want to argue with masters, but I don't think it's quite correct ( the info u have got )
1. U have a partly midi studio ( dont forget your sampler - very powerfull piece of equipment and the Freebass )
2. As far as I know Gina is more than OK to produce tracks and finalize them.
3. What u need the mixer is for the sampler and the module, so get yourself a small ( 8 slides ) behringer mixer - it will cost u 1000 NIS add it to 2700 of the Gina and u have an excellent output.
Gina supposed to b excellent with Cubase and Logic ( some of the leading Israeli artists use soundcards from the same family ) |
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___yuli
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Posted : Apr 11, 2001 20:31:22
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PS as I have noticed u have the mixer ( eurorack ) so WTF is a pro - mixer ??? I can assure u that I don't have 'pro - mixer'... I just have a mixer - eventually any mixer does the job.. it's the sound technician usually the one that fucks up the mix |
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___pini
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Posted : Apr 12, 2001 00:16:38
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yuli i don't want to derange you but i would like to ask you another question
1.what are the reason that made you don't like
creamware products.
2.i heared that a lot of creator(panic,astral projection,power soruce) that oprate MIDI instruments in their studio are using the pulsar
and other creamware products.
3.a lot of ppl said to me that the modifcation in
the technique of creation elctronic music is the
crossing from outside instruments(sampler,synyh.)
into the pc by using virtual synth,sampler and vst instruments.
all the final mix and the mastering were operated in the pc. what do you think a bout this technique
of work?
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___yuli
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Posted : Apr 12, 2001 01:35:15
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Welllllll
1. It's not that I think Creamware are not good enough. Their hardware is good and the synths that come with it are good. What bothers me the most with their products are the following facts:
First: When u buy the product u have no idea what so ever how much u gonna have to invest in it. Some say buy it with 3 processors - it's not enough to do anything at all. After u add three more u can put 7 lines together ( Horrrrray, not. ) what is this? For every processor u pay good money. Most of the tracks need much more than 7 lines
Second: Creamware products sort of 'bind' u into a certain reality where there are programs and utilities u can't use coz the hardware won't let u. Again some would say it's wonderfull and Creamware has it all and why bother, I say it's a problem and I don't like corporations a-la Microsoft that tend to be a monopol.
2. That is true that some creators use Pulsar and also operate midi through it. Well there are much more that use other kind of equipment he he ( PsyCraft, PsySex, Xerox, Infected?, Sandman, me and much more ) but that is not a kind of answer u would expect..
First u have to remember that some would use certain hardware coz it helps them on what they do besides being trance artists ( Midi/ Audio school operated on Pulsar for example ). Pulsar would also be very nice to start around for it is excellent to understand how the things are in their basis ( some would say ) but after u will progress a bit - u will c that it's not enough for u and then u will have to buy special add-ons that in normal situation u wouldn't have to like that MIDI plug for instance.
3. Those who were talking to u about the crossover between MIDI studio and the Virual studio are completely RIGHT.
In my opinion the way to do it is simple -
Buy a decent Audio Card
Buy a decent sequencer program ( Logic, Cubase )
U already have couple of MIDI instruments - Sampler, Module
Get some VST instruments ( there are many and very good quality - and in contrary to pulsar they will work with a wide range of programs )
Get some quality audio plugins
And here u are with a lot of possibilities and no limitations about your future
If u will get the CreamWare package, u definitely will b satisfied but with quite a lot of limitations and need to pay extra every time u need to grow a little bit.
That is all I feel and know about this subject.. It would b real nice to hear some specialist from the other side like Nir Hujaboy for instance. He uses Creamware I think and I think he might have some different opinion then moi
Ciao
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___pini
Old Forum Member
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Posted : Apr 12, 2001 05:09:05
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yuli,you said in your answer that the 3 dsp on the creamware worth nothing.
for what i am know the gina,darla and other ECHO
prducts have only 1 dsp(motrolla 56301).
do you think that only 1 dsp worth something?
*you said in simple word that if i buy creamwre
products i can't work with other prog like reason,
reaktor,vst instruments in parallel to creamware products?
*if i will buy the gina-for what i need 8 outputs?
btw-when you write " u can put 7 lines together ( Horrrrray, not. )" for what you intent?
(it's about the sequencer prog,or it a bout the mixer of the pulsar???) |
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___yuli
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Posted : Apr 12, 2001 12:29:48
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The card I use ( Gadget ) doesn't have a DSP - that's for one, and the quantity of actions I can make at once using audio is NOT LESS than pulsar with 6 processors.
That was to begin with.
U have to remember that processors of the Pulsar have to cover all it's software and hardware first and it's not an easy task. There is a lot of power that goes simply for that. Look again for what I have wrote in the beginning of this reply - all the lines I would use would use very powerfull real time effects and still I would b able to use more lines at one go than 6 processors of Pulsar. ( Not too strong PC by the way 100 board and pentium II 400 )
About working with other instruments - I think u will b able to work with all u mentioned. I think Soundforge and the likes of that one are the ones that suffer from this.
The 8 outputs of Gina is for future reference when u might have a bigger mixing board and u want to add some analogue qualities for your sound + maybe use some guitar player live, Drums etc..
When I said u can't use more than 7 lines I meant that there is a certain DSP power and when u pass cerain stage in adding lines with effects, your DSP just wouldn't stand it and u have to use alternative ways to continue working ( such as to dump lines into audio and that way to drop the effect that takes much memory from the processor ). I do it on my PC as well - The reason I have mentioned that about Pulsar is that I didn't pay shit loads of money to do that and it is only natural that my poor Pentium 400 will go down after a very hard effect experience. But that is the whole IDEA that stands behind Pulsar - eventually u wont have enough power/memory to run what u need, so u will come again and buy more memory and I don't like this way |
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___BoriZ
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Posted : Apr 15, 2001 13:54:14
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You have to consider other aspects as well. So far you've only
talked about numbers, but the sound quality of pulsar, is very poor. Not the quality of the card itself, but the software. All you have to do to hear it for yourself is to play alittle with one of the synths (not the UKNOW007 which is briliant), and immediately you'll notice that the filters sound like shit. It also responds VERY BAD to midi controllers (All creamware modules) and does not implement the entire MIDI protocol. Also - to make the software run "Betsura svira", you
have to install no more than the software, and a seuqncer.
Anything else - and it's a blue screen error party.
All the good modules of pulsar - you have to buy. And they are not cheap at all. about 160$ for a decent sounding synth (which is not made by creamware, but rather by some scope - owning guys which can give you very little customer support). The fact is that very few seriouse companies support creamware. I think that fact speaks for itfels. |
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