willsanquil
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Posted : Apr 18, 2011 19:36
I would disagree that most of the audience knows. Sure, most of us on this forum can tell the difference as the majority of us are DJs or producers and have defined opinions on the matter.
Most people at the festivals or parties though? They want to dance - not complain about how live the artist is. Before I started producing this music it was mostly a mystery to me, and I didn't know the difference between real live and fake live.
and yeah...organizers love to put *LIVE!* on the flyers. It even happened to me when I expressly said that I was DJing other poeple's music...I guess using a laptop and a MIDI controller these days means you're Live!
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
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Beat Agency
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Posted : Apr 18, 2011 19:42
I do not agree. Even a kid age 10 know when someone is pushing start on a laptop and dance around like a circus clown or when a real artist actually work behind the equipment (or even bring musicians who actually play an instrument).
Of course there are those who make it look like they play live but there are tons of big names who make it very obvious they just pushed "start" Yet people keep supporting them over and over again. People don't care. They just want to see their hero's and worship them on stage. I am not even kidding here. This is what it's evolved to in the increasing commercial "psy trance" scene - IMO. Of course there are underground events out there but let's face it. They are not the events that "sell" this scene to newcomers any longer.
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Yidam
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Posted : Apr 18, 2011 21:08
this old musician who played horn with dizzy and sinatra is performing with 4 others in a pub. there are 60 people in the audience.
in the club right beside is some full on kid playing an ableton dj set of his own material, getting smashed on red bull vodkas and getting paid five times as much as the whole jazz band. there are 300 people in the audience.
true story, we were organizing the pub gig for the people who run both venues, the budget was allocated according to the business generated.
can you blame the DJ? the organizer ? the owner? the audience ? the bartenders ?
the whole industry is out of balance and that's where it comes from, here we are debating what we should call the performance?
until electronic acts who feel this calling to be real, move out of the DJ space and actually start performing like instrumentalists it's all a wasted debate.
there are a few exceptions coming out the leftfield though. guys who can do both... but no matter how good they are, there will always be the 'how live is it really' debate.
interesting how much regard our species places on hand-eye coordination..
i really enjoy complicated, intelligently laid-out compositions, how its presented or shared is of little importance\..don wook at da finger
Beat Agency
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Posted : Apr 18, 2011 22:28
It is very simple. Let's just get back to Dj'ing and erase the live performances at clubs/parties and leave the ego's behind making the music speak by itself www.beatagency.dk
rich
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Posted : Apr 18, 2011 22:59
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 22:28, Beat Agency wrote:
It is very simple. Let's just get back to Dj'ing and erase the live performances at clubs/parties and leave the ego's behind making the music speak by itself
After all's said and done, I feel the same way.
Except for the damn 'Shpongletron Experience'. Nothing more disappointing than learning it's just a glorified DJ set. For Shpongle I want the whole band.
willsanquil
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Posted : Apr 19, 2011 02:25
V3NOM
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Posted : Apr 19, 2011 03:47
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 22:59, rich wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 22:28, Beat Agency wrote:
It is very simple. Let's just get back to Dj'ing and erase the live performances at clubs/parties and leave the ego's behind making the music speak by itself
I saw the live band in Melbourne this year.
Believe me Shpngletron is much more value for money.
i thought it would be a life changing experience, instead I found getting extremely high & drunk much more entertaining than anything the band on the stage were doing.
Then I went home and DJ'd my own Shpongle set and actually enjoyed it
After all's said and done, I feel the same way.
Except for the damn 'Shpongletron Experience'. Nothing more disappointing than learning it's just a glorified DJ set. For Shpongle I want the whole band.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy!
Yidam
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Posted : Apr 19, 2011 07:09
if you're talking about the whole experience check this little bit on one of the earlier plastikman shows...
Yidam
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Posted : Apr 19, 2011 13:50
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 21:38, moondoggy wrote:
i really enjoy complicated, intelligently laid-out compositions, how its presented or shared is of little importance..don wook at da finger
can improvisation fit into this at all?
Beat Agency
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Posted : Apr 19, 2011 14:07
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 22:59, rich wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 22:28, Beat Agency wrote:
It is very simple. Let's just get back to Dj'ing and erase the live performances at clubs/parties and leave the ego's behind making the music speak by itself
After all's said and done, I feel the same way.
Except for the damn 'Shpongletron Experience'. Nothing more disappointing than learning it's just a glorified DJ set. For Shpongle I want the whole band.
I do not see sphongle fit into a party situation (I dont believe in liveacts in a party situation at all). They belong in the big Festivals and concerts.
I strongly believe the scene would benefit from going back to basics just using Dj's in the parties and one day events and allow the DJ's to play longer sets. 2-3 Dj's max in a party is the best way to go IMO.
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Posted : Apr 19, 2011 16:55
Quote:
On 2011-04-19 14:07, Beat Agency wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 22:59, rich wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-18 22:28, Beat Agency wrote:
It is very simple. Let's just get back to Dj'ing and erase the live performances at clubs/parties and leave the ego's behind making the music speak by itself
After all's said and done, I feel the same way.
Except for the damn 'Shpongletron Experience'. Nothing more disappointing than learning it's just a glorified DJ set. For Shpongle I want the whole band.
I do not see sphongle fit into a party situation (I dont believe in liveacts in a party situation at all). They belong in the big Festivals and concerts.
I strongly believe the scene would benefit from going back to basics just using Dj's in the parties and one day events and allow the DJ's to play longer sets. 2-3 Dj's max in a party is the best way to go IMO.
+1
Also shpongletron still is promoted (at least at some flyers I have seen) as dj set.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
le barde
Electrypnose
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Posted : Apr 20, 2011 01:40
Referring to an earlier post from V3NOM in the topic, saying about a good experience with Chemical Brothers.
I saw a show of them a few years ago also, and I have a very big respect for their work. But what I concluded after the show is that it was probably one of the most expensive playback set I've ever seen. Having for I don't imagine how much equipment on stage and probably using very little part of it in real... Seeing videos from other shows in the same tour, and it was just looking / sounding the same as I saw myself. Just can't imagine their is much more live elements than a little trance act out there. Their was only a much bigger kickdrum and drumstick so everybody cool see it from far away and say "woawww".
About 10 years ago also I saw a show of Leftfield. Just the 2 producers sitting on the stage turning their back to each other. (Yeah, sitting in front of a desktop computer, not even looking on what the other dude would do). I don't know what they were doing, I don't care.. but the set/music they played was a great experience.
Cosmo is a very good producer I think. He for sure has music for his sets that I have never heard anywhere else. This is probably what makes an artist interesting to listen to... to see what he has to give us, whatever material/way he uses to play it.
____
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V3NOM
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Posted : Apr 20, 2011 03:27
I went & saw Danny Howells do a 8 hour DJ set a week ago. It was probably one of the best DJ sets I have heard in any style, he even dropped some old school progressive psy sounds.
I'm sure he could've done a play back set if he had wanted to but I could easily see him using the cdj's n' vinyl. I really agree with Beat Agency that I think extended DJ sets of quality music are much better than ye olde fake live sets.
And the statement that all the magic is done in the studio so fake live sitting behind a screen is ok is crap.
You don't see the extremely technical metal bands doing fake live shows, so psy artists do something on stage. Seriously, the way it is now is just pathetic.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy!
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Posted : Apr 20, 2011 08:29
Quote:
On 2011-04-20 01:40, le barde wrote:
Referring to an earlier post from V3NOM in the topic, saying about a good experience with Chemical Brothers.
I saw a show of them a few years ago also, and I have a very big respect for their work. But what I concluded after the show is that it was probably one of the most expensive playback set I've ever seen. Having for I don't imagine how much equipment on stage and probably using very little part of it in real... Seeing videos from other shows in the same tour, and it was just looking / sounding the same as I saw myself. Just can't imagine their is much more live elements than a little trance act out there. Their was only a much bigger kickdrum and drumstick so everybody cool see it from far away and say "woawww".
About 10 years ago also I saw a show of Leftfield. Just the 2 producers sitting on the stage turning their back to each other. (Yeah, sitting in front of a desktop computer, not even looking on what the other dude would do). I don't know what they were doing, I don't care.. but the set/music they played was a great experience.
Cosmo is a very good producer I think. He for sure has music for his sets that I have never heard anywhere else. This is probably what makes an artist interesting to listen to... to see what he has to give us, whatever material/way he uses to play it.
Past weekend I also went to see Chemical brothers, and while it was a blast of fun I was sure they werent doing anything apart from playing some leads in some songs. The same with Daft Punk.
Which brings me the question, its possible to recreate electronic music live in the same quality of the recorded versions?
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
