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cosmo 10 hours live act?
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Perma Fry
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Posted : Apr 11, 2011 18:26
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On 2011-03-10 23:21, Perma Fry wrote:
I always liked longer sets live / dj.
This gives more room for story and makes killer vibe.
cosmo ten hours live is ROx !!!
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 11, 2011 19:08
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I still don't get what the difference is between, say, Basilisk's DJ sets and Cosmo's Live sets.
Except that one (in this example) is playing for a very very long time and Cosmo made some of or most of the tracks that he's mixing.
Seems to me that there is this obsession with being booked as or promoted as a Live act when...you don't do anything Live. I mean, you're Alive and you're doing your mixing in real time...but its not the same.
Again - why don't people say Gil is a live act? What's the difference?
Respect to people who actually do live shit.
Filter - you say that it's impossible to do live in the darkpsy style. Then why call it live? Seems silly at best, and at worst an insult to real live musicians who put in the effort to create something on the fly in that moment.
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 11, 2011 19:54
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On 2011-04-11 19:08, willsanquil wrote:
I still don't get what the difference is between, say, Basilisk's DJ sets and Cosmo's Live sets.
Except that one (in this example) is playing for a very very long time and Cosmo made some of or most of the tracks that he's mixing.
Seems to me that there is this obsession with being booked as or promoted as a Live act when...you don't do anything Live. I mean, you're Alive and you're doing your mixing in real time...but its not the same.
Again - why don't people say Gil is a live act? What's the difference?
Respect to people who actually do live shit.
Filter - you say that it's impossible to do live in the darkpsy style. Then why call it live? Seems silly at best, and at worst an insult to real live musicians who put in the effort to create something on the fly in that moment.
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Thats the whole point. Live is overrated by crowd and promoters, artist have no other option but to call what ever they "performance" a live act.
And the difference between a good dj set (as Basilisk ones I have heard) anda live can be great, since the first has more options, and if its "on the fly" (as ti should be" it will be an "once in a lifetime" experience. The resulting playlist would be influenced by the crowd, the vibe and what was floating in the mind of the dj at that particular moment.
Also, the experience of "wow that dj played that awesome tune, I must search and find by who it is" is totally forgotten, since live acts only play their own songs.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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willsanquil
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Posted : Apr 11, 2011 20:30
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They do have an option.
They can refuse to be booked as a live act. Artist DJ set is something that I have seen in the past, and I feel that is an accurate description of what goes on in 95% of the "Live" acts out there.
The unproffesionalism and lack of truth in advertising is not good for the scene imo.
I fail to see how that experience of lusting after a track the DJ played is gone. How many shows have you been to that are 100% "live" acts? I've never been to one.
There is nothing wrong with DJing your own stuff as a producer and telling it how it is. Just don't insult everyone else by calling yourself Live.
IMO, of course.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 11, 2011 20:34
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I'd rather do a DJ set and throw in some of my own tunes as:
1. I haven't experienced any organizers wanting to pay me the price a real live set would cost.
2. I feel weird pressing play even when I manipulate sounds etc. It's just not live for me (I used to play in a band playing 100% live).
www.beatagency.dk |
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 11, 2011 21:52
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dear mister thinning, how about sharing some insights about your perspective, from an artists point of view to other artists out there who want to learn and make a living breathing live set, on how to go about making 1.
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grahf
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Posted : Apr 11, 2011 23:41
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I think a lot of the problem here stems from the fact that it's not immediately apparent to an uneducated listener on the dancefloor what degree of sound manipulation the artist on stage is doing. Whether it's DJ or "live," lazy or skilled, it all sounds more or less the same - beatmatched untz untz untz.
In some other genres of electronic music I have seen artists go so far as to setup their midi controllers angled towards the crowd - to say, hey look, i'm actively manipulating the music, not just pressing play. (I'm think of Eskmo and the Glitch Mob)
Perhaps a distinction could be drawn between "live set" and "live act." A live set is a lot like a DJ set, except the artist is playing mostly his own stuff in Ableton. A live act would be significant spontaneous creation on stage. |
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willsanquil
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Posted : Apr 12, 2011 00:51
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it may sound more or less the same to an uneducated listener, that's true. As the years stretch on, the people who show up to psy festivals are anything but uneducated listeners.
Most of the people in the scene in my area are other artists/djs, past or present party promoters, people who do deco or VJ or etc - they're pretty invested and have pretty intense opinions about the music.
That's who I'd like my music to resonate with if I was aiming it towards a certain type of person - I mean, I make music for my own enjoyment obviously but I definitely have the dancefloor in mind when I go about making a trance tune. I would hope that the uneducated listener would be able to appreciate good music, but honestly I don't really care about accessability and easy-digestability.
There is no need for two terms like live set and live act. There is already a term for an artist playing his own or mostly his own stuff in Ableton - and that's a DJ set. If it's a lot like a DJ set then call it a DJ set imo 
Just because you use a laptop and use Ableton does not automatically make it live.
As for making a living and breathing live set...there are plenty of options for experimental creation on the spot be it with mucking about with MIDI clips fed to patches that you've bound to smart macro knobs in ableton that you tweak on the fly...
kaossilator/ipad style touch interfaces..
drum pads...
generative music (for instance, follow actions with randomized parameters in ableton)
there are many synths out there that have Live or Performance modes that allow looping/latching...
It's hard. Possible, but really hard.
I'd say one of the biggest reasons people don't have great live sets is because it probably takes just as long to construct material for and a setup for a sensible, workable live set as it does to create entire tunes...and when its standard to press play and dance there is no pressure from anyone to do anything but that. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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V3NOM
Offtopic posts:
6
Posted: Apr 12, 2011
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I once did a poo and the sound of it splattering the wall in a 360 degree arc of agonised cries mixed with blood & mucus sounded just like a dark psy live set.
thnx.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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ploink
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Posted : Apr 12, 2011 16:26
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On 2011-04-12 10:20, V3NOM wrote:
I once did a poo and the sound of it splattering the wall in a 360 degree arc of agonised cries mixed with blood & mucus sounded just like a dark psy live set.
thnx.
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grow the f**k up already why dont you
thx
Smile! Tomorrow will be worse :) |
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filter
Moderator
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Posted : Apr 13, 2011 03:21
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For me my basic point remains the same, i really dont mind using the word live to describe what its done at the moment. Its not an 'insult'. thata too much for me to say.
Its not instrument-based music, its completely known by the audience, its not a secret anymore, everyone is playing around with ableton or traktor even if they are not djs or producers. Its well known that the whole point of electronic music is accomplishing that wouldnt be possible withouth technology. So if everyone is aware of this, the attention goes to how well the tracks are mixed, what tiny differences are there, and the general music itself.
There is still something cool about seeing the artist himself play his own music, even if its just mixing, there is a difference on how they approach the live set. I agree that is 100% about marketing when parties put it like that, but i still dont mind using it in my everyday 'trance dialect'.
Also consider this :
A serious artist works a lot in this tracks, really a lot, I know some guys stay like 8 hours some times, 12 hours, etc, everyday. There is an insane ammount of work in doing a really good complex dark psy track. And usually a lot of this music takes a very long time to be released, and there are many versions of each track that dont even sound similar to the one that is finally released. So when you book a 'live act' you are also rewarding the artist for sharing his current works, things that maybe take 2 years to be released, if they are released at all. There is no way you can listen to that music at that point except by booking the 'live set', thats the only way of truly experiencing the work of the artist.
For me the truth is always revealed when the music is being played, there you see where the work is, even if its only mixed, the tracks can be enough for me. It really depends on the individual artist you talk about, I usually refer to the few really serious artists we have in the scene and i really never felt 'cheated' by them being announced 'live' in the line up.
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willsanquil
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Posted : Apr 13, 2011 07:09
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dude stop trolling the discussion.
Anyways..Calling a producer who is mixing their own music a DJ set doesn't denigrate the massive amount of work they put in on that music...
The tracks themselves are totally enough - a live performance is in no way required for a good time. However, a true live performance is something different and I feel it carries a different type of energy....at least potentially.
Again - you book an artist, he plays his released and unreleased stuff...if he mixes it with ableton or CDs or something...its still him DJing. It's not playing live.
I don't feel cheated anymore when I see someone booked as live, I just expect them to be doing a DJ set then if they actually do a live set then I get to be surprised 
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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grahf
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Posted : Apr 13, 2011 08:16
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Quote:
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On 2011-04-12 00:51, willsanquil wrote:
There is no need for two terms like live set and live act. There is already a term for an artist playing his own or mostly his own stuff in Ableton - and that's a DJ set. If it's a lot like a DJ set then call it a DJ set imo
Just because you use a laptop and use Ableton does not automatically make it live.
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I agree with the second part but not necessarily the first. It just seems like a really blurry line. If an artist has separated their tracks into stems and can trigger clips on the fly - then that's a level of manipulation not generally available to DJs, so why call it DJing?
Perhaps in the future we'll look back on this discussion and laugh, as the lines will continue to blur so far that it won't matter anymore. Obviously the status quo has to get shaken up before we get there. |
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V3NOM
Inactive User
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Posted : Apr 13, 2011 11:01
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I think a proper trance live shows when explored in full offers the best way to enlighten oneself when going with the flow of the acid show but when a press play show is done in ableton it's reall p4nt5 and defies the true meaning of trance.
I suggest that we have a global protest and refuse to go to parties until promoters and artists give in.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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filter
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Posted : Apr 13, 2011 15:08
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