The Greatest Sophistication is figuring out how not to be sophisticated
aje
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
1145
Posted : Mar 29, 2011 18:31
I was wondering the same thing, whenever i see video tutorials on the net they are always working almost exclusively with audio and people always talk about bouncing this or bouncing that...
And I wonder: WHY??? Is it only to save CPU, or does it have other advantages? Because to me its much easier and flexible to keep everything in MIDI, why bounce? I have a new I7 with 8 GB Ram and I havent even come close to maxing out my CPU or experiencing any problems of the kind.
Check out my album: http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/gay-satanic-hippie-tiefenrausch
Wizack Twizack
Wizack Twizack
Started Topics :
239
Posts :
3486
Posted : Mar 29, 2011 18:45
For me bouncing gives lots of more options to manipulate the sound by doing. Put diffrent effects of the same sound for example, strech it, pitch it etc etc. There is lots of more things you can do with audio files. Easyer to work with.
But ofcourse its important to save the midi notes aswell.
Also, not only that, Sometimes when i've been lazy and forgot to save for some reason and the project shuts down (wich happens for everyone from what i've heard : ) the stuff i bounced are still there and u could re create what u've did alittle bit better then if u haven't bounced the stuff u created cheers!
For Contact & Bookings:
Wizack_Booking@hotmail.com
www.soundcloud.com/wizack_Twizack New Album Out: Wizack Twizack - IV (Ovnimoon Records 2011) http://www.beatport.com/#release/wizack-twizack-iv/387698
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 29, 2011 18:50
it has much less to do with CPU and much more to do with workflow.
IDK what it is exactly about working with audio, but I always seem to get more stuff done once it's actually in audio...
If its in MIDI I can endlessly tweak parameters... It's been really good for me to get to a point where if I like the sound then I bounce it down, and then yeah can cut stretch pitch effect etc...but yeah of course save the patch/midi information.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 29, 2011 19:35
I make it a habit to bounce everything to audio. Workflow is the main reason, I get so much more creative chopping, stretching and reversing audio clips compared to midi.
Same as Will- when I used to leave things in midi, I'd constantly want to go back and tweak sounds, bouncing to audio makes it more finalized and if I hate it later, I'll delete or edit it in a different way.
Ableton has a nasty habit of giving me errors that don't allow me to open a project, which is caused by vsts (mostly albino3).
It's also nice to be listening to a section of a track and hearing exactly what you would at that point, rather than having to start from the beginning of any midi that plays during that section. Aside from the different ways you can arrange a sound with audio over midi, this is the biggest workflow improvement I've noticed.http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group
kotton
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
105
Posted : Mar 29, 2011 19:36
I agree. If you dont bounce your sounds, you can tweak them forever in hope to get them sound better. But usually I end up with something completely different or I ruin the sound by endless tweaking. But still, I normally just bounce the synth sound, without the effect chain. That still gives me some space for re-tweaking the sound
psyraal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
77
Posts :
768
Posted : Mar 30, 2011 00:25
Quote:
Ableton has a nasty habit of giving me errors that don't allow me to open a project, which is caused by vsts (mostly albino3).
Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Mar 30, 2011 12:50
I only bounce things to do edits that are otherwise impossible to do.
Tweaking synth parameters and EQ, reverb send...etc automation is part of my mixing process. So I leave all of that stuff in real time. Yes I have fallen into my own "trap" of tweaking things for ever, but I'd rather have total control and sometimes waste time, than not. I mean even bouncing things in audio and then copying over all the plug ins from a software instrument track, to an audio track (duplicating a software instrument track cannot copy over to an audio track), is a time wasting process it self, especially when you have 40+ channels of soft synths.
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Mar 30, 2011 21:19
+1 to disco hooligans.
i only bounce to audio if a lfo does something spectacular which i want to happen with specific notes, to achieve specific effects (reversal mainly) and if my computer can't cope with the project anymore (usually happens when i get over around 80 channels).
i see bouncing generally as a waste of time and removal of possibilities. but this of course depends on your workflow and the type of music you want to create. i never find interesting things to do with audio, while i get good results with tweaking...
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Mar 30, 2011 21:31
I sometimes bounce when I have really more than 20 virtual instrument channels to relief my cpu (almost never or maybe never again) ,or always when I create layers.
@ Padmapani could you upload a snippet of your 80 channels work? I'd love to hear how it sounds.Greetings
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 30, 2011 21:43
There are things you can do with MIDI that you can't do with Audio. There are things you can do with Audio that you can't do with MIDI. Saying which one is 'better' is like saying that a Reverb is better than a Flanger.
Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. I for one have repeatedly fallen into the trap of endlessly, endlessly tweaking parameters in the synth and I realize hours later that I haven't actually done anything besides that.
However, with Audio I can free myself of that nagging perfectionist that insists that everything be absolutely perfect and embrace some experimentation, and I get some results that I never would have achieved otherwise if I had stuck in MIDI land.
Not like it's hard to save shit...when I'm bouncing down what I do a lot of the time is make a copy of the original, then freeze and flatten that copy down to audio and then have a play at adding stuff like reverse reverb, timestretching, chopping...then freeze, flatten down to audio again...rinse and repeat...or adding an FX unit and tweaking the variables live and bouncing it down immediately. Have you never opened up a project only to see tons and tons of tons of automation lanes and thought...fuck this...that doesn't happen to me with Audio
It is DEFINITELY not 'removing' possibilities - it is just another method with another set of tools. I know that I spent months and months in the beginning where I didn't use any audio at ALL, it was ALL MIDI.
Remember as well that limitation is good at times. It forces you to use different methods and focuses you on what you CAN do. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Mar 31, 2011 00:05
+1 to disco. bounce to edit further, though i do a lot of such further edits, so i bounce at least 50% of my leads and fx.
www.overdreamstudio.com
Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Mar 31, 2011 00:26
Quote:
On 2011-03-30 21:31, TimeTraveller wrote:
@ Padmapani could you upload a snippet of your 80 channels work? I'd love to hear how it sounds.Greetings
actually i create a lot of channels when i work and start deleting the unused ones only when things really begin to slow down a lot. after all these sounds and instruments might (and often are!) useful at a later part of the track. so i usually end up using something like 50 channels...
but the track which i cut the following excerpt from uses (including sends and group tracks) 94 channels of which 76 are softsynths you actually hear (the sample includes 24 of them), so i think that's close enough to 80
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Mar 31, 2011 03:55
Thank you,it sound very good I was thinking you might use more channels at the same time somewhere but now I understand this concept so and can imagine it well with that many channels.Nice work!
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
I was thinking you might use more channels at the same time somewhere but now I understand this concept so and can imagine it well with that many channels.Nice work!