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-= controversial... ? =-
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zebra-n
Zebra-N
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
95
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 16:40
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++ i hardly dare start this topic, coz i guess it's gonna be stormy after what i am about to tell ++
the thing is: i have been thinking a bit about what musicans earn per hour, for example: let's assume u work 40 hours on a track, and a label releases it for let's say: 300 dollars/euro's, what do u get per hour: do the math, and come to the realisation that even a cashiere makes more money then that... 
deduct the cost of coffee, beer, joints etc, and u will even get a lower price per hour... is it fair? no, i would say.
no harm meant to the all the labels who are doing their best to get good music on the market and are also struggling to survive... and many thanks for releasing some of my tracks of course...
nevertheless, it is sticking in my mind that making music which is a pretty skilled job, should be so underpaid
pls, before u start reacting on this, i don't want to start a fight between labels and artists, nor be negative, it's just a thought which crossed my mind and i would like to hear peoples opinion on this, from labelowners to musicians to cashieres (grin)... keep it nice please... 
zebra out |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 16:58
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Yeah right
but depends where u live.
If u live in London 300$ just enough for some cigarettes, but in the deep east of europe u can maybe live a whole month with 300$.
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s0ft
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
825
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 17:30
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phobium
Phobium
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
718
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 17:47
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illusions
Erebus
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
626
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 17:54
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get people to start buying more cd's instead of getting everything on mp3, and you will start getting paid more than a cashier.
If you can't beat them, join em. Sell your mp3's online. But I don't want to start another "legalize mp3" discussion - does'nt seem to be too welcome here. |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 18:37
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I can't remember the last time I actually got a royalty statement from any of the labels that have released my music recently - despite it being on the contracts. Not getting any royalties should only happen if the CD doesn't sell enough to recoup the advance - and let me tell you, you have to be either Israeli or Dick Trevor to get anything decent there - which makes me wonder how any of these labels can survive.
Sometimes it also makes me wonder if artists get told the truth about how many copies their tracks sell, too.
As for gigs, it's definitely more possible to earn a reasonable fee playing live, but when you consider a 2 hour set containing maybe 16 tracks, each of which takes say 40 hours - that's 640 hours of work before you even get on stage. Using the same skills at work that I use for my music gets me about £20 an hour at the moment, so lets assume this is a reasonable hourly rate for this kind of skilled, creative work - that means that about £13,000 of time goes into preparing a 2-hour live set. Don't forget this doesn't include the capital investment involved in buying equipment, or paying rent or bills necessary to having a space where you can make music. It would take a fair few gigs to see that kind of return!
I've always known I wasn't involved in music to make money, but I've never actually done the figures before. Makes you stop and think!
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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zebra-n
Zebra-N
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
95
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 18:57
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colin, that's exactly what i wanted, stop and think... (or was it duck and cover...lol)
i'm also not in it for the money, could care less...
i make music because i feel like it and need it, but the figures just aren't right... |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 20:22
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money is less in psy trance imo... but i honestly feel if u are skilled enough to make some classy psy trance [ which is really hard to make ] , y not make some euro trance / progressive and also release there .... this way u kinda doulbe your income and more over , euro trance is really simple to make ....
moreover , try to be a good dj , so that u get more bookings ! |
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zebra-n
Zebra-N
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
95
Posted : Mar 19, 2005 20:29
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wavelogix, i dont think u get the point... no offense... personally i can't make eurotrance, coz it's not my thing.... secondly, i am a good dj, and do get some bookings here an there, but it's not the subject here i think
ciao! paul |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Mar 20, 2005 02:53
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Well this is kind of a relative concept - becuase most of you would be doing this even if you didn't get paid - right? Where does the 'work' end and the 'recreation' begin? It'd be interesting to have a tally of released artists that still have day jobs vs. those who can support themselves making music. I've met a startlingly high number of big-name israeli "rock stars" that still live at their mom's house.
Also, I don't think the $ per hour thing is appropriate - it's more like an investment than an hourly tab. How often do you get booked? Meaning, how 'efficiently' do you make money off the tracks you've released?
An artist could write a full length album, get a little bit of royalties, get limited bookings and play 1 or 2 gigs and get paid for those.
Or that same artist could use those same 10 tracks and play 10 gigs over a few months, get paid for 10 gigs rather that 2, and get a much higher return on their investment of time and labour of love.
So is your booking agent like a stockbroker? Hmm.
http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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Ajja
Yab Yum
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
86
Posted : Mar 20, 2005 03:11
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hi paul! good question...
find myself in an interesting position here, as im part of the peak records management & also releasing tracks with co-manager dj gaspard (as YABYUM) and with the peaking goddess collective.
from my musician side i agree that the pay SUCKS! when my friends want to start making trance i warn them it aint gonna pay the bills... anyway, music made purely for money is not gonna have the same vibe as music made for the sheer pleasure of being able to do it. so thats what keeps me going - its FUN!
thing is... the same math applies to labels too... bummer! the labels that make money are the well-established ones or the more commercial ones. if i gave as much time to a regular job as i gave to peak i would be rich... sigh.
so i learn two things...
1. it is hard to make a living from making or compiling non-commercial trance music.
2. it doesnt matter as long as we are having fun & carrying a good vibe.
conclusion: lets help each other earn a living from what we enjoy doing, by sharing as much information, contacts & yes - hard cash as we can spare.
thanks for raising the issue man - hope to see ya soon!
love & light
New Ajja album coming soon on Peak Records!
www.ajja.leufamilyiron.com / www.peakrec.com |
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Mar 20, 2005 04:57
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this r the facts..
i hope with the time the scene grows but same time will be mainstream.. i think.. no good the magik dies..
Bands like Infected Mushroom makes alot of money each gig and they are playing over and over around the glob.. they make a living of it.. so i think its not impossible. but is a fact that for almost artist is like paying for making music rather than making money of it.. yes if a fact that is a lot that we put making music, but its all so connected that nothing can get better if artists lables and listeners dont make something in same direction. this is the point as well..
lables need to sell more so they can pay more.. listeners need to buy more so the artist and lable earn more. artist shoul be booked more times as well.. promoters should make more partys or less and better. everyone need to make their path.
Such a thing like this is not a councearn for dj's that dont produce music. Dj's non producers have a ot less expences and they can be booked more frequently e.g resident dj's etc.. and the well known ones play every weekend sometimes more than 1 time per weekend. i know some of these cases. So they also make a living of it. they earn more than most avarage ppl working hard everyday.. So what i presume of all of this is that these is not an imposible achivment in trance world , shure its quite hard, but possible above all. A fact is that these movement is young and not so industrialy developed like techno house hiphop (i supose these r the 3 most luctrative electronic music scene so far and the first as well) so u see its a question of time. its we that are making it hapen and will make it possible. its all of us , lables , artists, and listeners. u cant miss the respect for it neither the will or belive.
this was a great post zebra.. u make realise about how the scene is a baby yet on side of other movments. Im shure drum n bass is in the same situation as well as loads of styles
Keep rocking loving and making things hapennig as if we were all one 
Booooom |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 20, 2005 05:39
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well count all the $ i got from realeses... heh 
but for playin dj set i get nice payment..
i now work on live act and i will ask more for this show (incl. bringin the equip outside ,the extra efford i give.. ).
so.. the label is my advertisement and party promoter is the one i realy get the $ from.
and u know what? i think they also make the bigger $ in this scene here then labels for sure (tho it suppose to come together?)
300 $ for track is realistic.. what to do we r not selling to 12 years u.s girls....
i started it all for fun.. but hey.. to make good music you need alot of time, efford, SYNTHS (cost alot!), good computer! and study alot of numerical shit.. so i think its only fair to get paid advenced.
and 1 more thing.. as much pplz like your music thats how much they gonna pay for it. if u know to ask right
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Mar 20, 2005 06:49
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I find it funny how everyone wants to be a hero, and yet nobody wants to be a martyr. Even for the so called "lucky" artists like Infected, I guarantee you their time investment still hasn't paid off relative to their return, especially in comparison to conventional careers like accounting, where you can make bank just by going to school and listening like a drone bee.
The funny thing is, it gets easier the longer you are involved. Both in the musical sense, and the business sense. But the people who never really loved doing it for its own sake end up quitting. They are not missed. In fact, they usually pollute the audio pool with hoardes of derivative releases. Don't be them. Accept non-payment permanently if necessary. Make music for its own sake.
Make music so people can go "holy fucking shit what were you ON when you made that..." That's better than money, and money is easy to make elsewhere. |
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zebra-n
Zebra-N
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
95
Posted : Mar 20, 2005 10:31
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kewl... nice comments from everyone and also good to hear something from Ajja (where are you man..!?). Let's make one thing very clear, i make psytrance, because i really feel the need to do it...
Furthermore, most speakers have something i can agree on: fun, it gets easier, people buying more cd's....etc, but.... where does this little voice in my head come from that tells me it isn't right the way it is... (or is it just talking bullshit... lol)... ok, keep on giving your opinions.. im very curious 4 more
zebra out |
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