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controlled additive synthesis
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jul 26, 2013 16:58:15
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Guys i looking for a vst or a way in abletons operator to do a controlled and also automated additive synthesis.
By this i mean, i need to be able to add and remove the harmonics constantly but not immediatly, so like an evenlope or an automation.
Everything else, like Filter or so is negligible.
I just need an easyier way to do this as i do it now, which is way to complicated and needs a ton of CPU ressource. |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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1352
Posted : Jul 26, 2013 17:27
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Quote:
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On 2013-07-26 16:58:15, zwarag wrote:
Guys i looking for a vst or a way in abletons operator to do a controlled and also automated additive synthesis.
By this i mean, i need to be able to add and remove the harmonics constantly but not immediatly, so like an evenlope or an automation.
Everything else, like Filter or so is negligible.
I just need an easyier way to do this as i do it now, which is way to complicated and needs a ton of CPU ressource.
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curious: in what way are you doing it now?
but I'm inclined to say: u-he's zebra 2.
on the oscillator section you have plenty modes to design your customized waveforms. I don't recall their names exactly (away from the studio right now), but two of them you can draw the harmonics in the place you want them to be.
if you draw plenty of them, adding more and more harmonics along the way. then all you have to do is modulate the "wave" in the oscillator section so that it zaps through all the waveforms.
you can even add more voices to a single oscillator and detune them appart and apply the included "oscillator fx" and this and that. so there's literaly tons of possibilities to go for there.
I think this is what you're going for, no?
other cool additive synthesizers that come to my mind: alchemy! fm8 can be used like that with 8 waveforms to combine with multi-stage envelopes (that are really as flexible as it gets, plus you get to sync the drawing window for them with host's tempo if you want to)...
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1352
Posted : Jul 26, 2013 19:27
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you may have guessed it: this is wavetable synthesis! But with total control of the harmonics present in each of the waveforms.
but doesn't have to be used like that. you can map the different waves to different keys - there's a very handy "map" thingy there in Zebra. or use the arp to steped sequence through them. |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jul 27, 2013 09:59
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If you are using ableton to produce, just rig up a bunch of sine wave oscillators in multiple chains. You will need to set the oscs an octave up from the previous chain setting, and adjust the volume for each individual partial. But at the end of the day, you could probably make better sounding waves using wavetable synthesis. If you can draw your waveform, it will probably be more interesting and cpu friendly to do it that way. The concept that any sound can be made with the appropriate amount of sine waves is indeed cool, but if an additive sawtooth sounds like a weak saw, use a sawtooth waveform.
A final suggestion, using eq to create the effect you're talking about. The eq can remove harmonics, and you can automate the frequency band gain.
 An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Jul 29, 2013 12:04
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@frisbeehead i use reason in rewire with a pach from a reason forum user.
the core is a combinator wich starts to split the singnal into a frew vocoders, these split into more vocoders, these go into a buch of redrums every one of these redrums controls about 8 malströms so at the end you have like ~250 malströms in it. Of coarse everything is in series.
I dont understand why i find like a trillion of stuff for subtractive synthesis but very little for additive.
btw Wavetable synthesis is not acceptable for what i like to do. I would have done this but i dont get the results i am looking for. With reason it quite gets along but i hear that my computer is sweating and has like a few ms latency when i use this patch. And yeah, i tryed to optimize the sample and buffering rate, but it just dont work.
@mubali: what i like to do is, manipulazing the waveform live. i need to manually add dis/harmonics. i would like to get a sound like overtone singing (pls dont suggest the format filter^^) |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jul 30, 2013 17:26
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Not suggesting a formant filter, but isn't a formant filter a series of bandpass filters set at certain frequencies to mimic the human vocal cords? In that logic, additive synthesis would also be possible to do the similar thing, just take a look at the frequency settings for a formant and set your sines to those same frequencies.
As far as why you see tons of subtractive synths and few additives is for several reasons. First off, even with something like 128 partials, it won't get the same timbre as an actual sawtooth wave. Secondly, additive synthesis is a very old form of synthesis that very very very few people actually use anymore because we have detailed wavetable synthesis as well as other forms. Thirdly, it takes some serious architecture to keep the processing power down for something like 32/64/128 partials (sine osc). Can you post a video or a sound example of what you are talking about?
But yeah, if you're running 250 oscillators, most computers will freak out. If you spend some time, you can probably get the control you want in a Reaktor Ensemble.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posts :
80
Posted : Jul 30, 2013 22:55
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merci very grazie mubali, you gave me a lot of input i can work with now! Mostly because of the arguments witch sounds like they make sense.
I cannot post a video because i have a sounddesing in my head which i would like to realize and then work with it.
I'll try to explain it as simple as possible with only the details needed so maybe you might understand what my point is! because now i have a feeling that it might be way easier than what my last thoughts without your last input brought out!
I was tweaking around in Operator from Ableton with just one OSC. In this OSC-View it is possible to shape your own wave. This had a very similar sound to what throat singing sounds. And i was looking desperatly to find a way to automate the amount of the harmonics that you can add in this OSC-view. But there is no way as i lerned in the ableton forum. So i thought with my little knowlage about music-theory the easiest way might be to have an additive synth and simply pitch the oscs as i need it and then send it through a mixer and tada i might have what i am looking for.
This video also approved what i was thinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZKvLnf7wU
And the reason i would like no not use a format filter at first place, is that i would like to create this sound i wish and they a format might fit in very well! |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Jul 30, 2013 23:40
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Mubali has hit the spot with the Reaktor ensemble thing! I didn't think of that: you can probably get something close to what you want on the extensive user library online! But even though I was suggesting wavetable synthesis, it's with user drawn waves in Zebra and the results would be some kind of additive organic and controllable thing - it's pretty cool to work that way when you're looking for something so specific. I'd be interested in seeing some screenshots of your Reason rig as well, it sounds a lot interesting to me: I've seen the version 7 on a friend's place and was amazed how much it has evolved. Myself, I started with Reason 3, then moved to Logic (have used Cubase and Ableton also a few playing around with other stuff like Reaper)...
I think Mubali is right in that if you want to many partials for a sound, you'll get out of resources fast. And if it's not some sound design experience you're going for - if you only care about the sound for your music - then Zebra 2 or Reaktor would be the way to go. Or, make use of all the resources and bounce down to audio. Resample is the way to go for much demanding tasks imo.
But it's interesting to see someone so interested in this, for a change! Keep it up |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
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2219
Posted : Jul 31, 2013 22:16
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There's a specific sine bank module that is how you would go about building your own additive synth. There's some tutorials on it floating around somewhere.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Aug 1, 2013 10:40
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thx to you guys!
if i remember i will give you a screenshot frisbeehead, but this could take a month because i will be on vacation sailing the beautifull Côte d’Azur and will not be at the studio before.
But if you like you can have a look here: https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?p=855054 if i remember right this is the one that i'm using!
peace'n'chaos brothers! |
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