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Confusion regarding relative Volume in Cubase
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john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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263
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 01:56
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Ok can somebody explain to me if there is a difference between the diff volumes when working Cubase? For example, say my VST is super super loud and the fader on its VST channel looks like its maxing out but then say the MAster volume isnt that loud and ISNT clipping is that fine? Or am I hearing more distortion by not making my VSTi's volume lower and then upping the Master volume.
WHat about headroom also? Im very confused by this. Also, theres a lil horizontal line on the Master Fader, when the volume surpasses this, it clips. BUT that same line exists on every channel like VSTs, so should I keep every channel below this line for it to not distort?
Yet another question is this: How come sometimes I have VSTi playing on Solo, and the master mixer looks fine, nothing is clipping, yet if i attach like a Waves Compressor with a Full-reset setting on, the clipping light is on. Does the clipping light mean, if the instrument was at 0db it would be clipping? I am soooo confused.
Finally, I sometimes Rewire Reason into Cubase for percussion. Say my Kickdrum is in Reason. Many of you have said that your Kicks are around -7Db in ur mix. BUt when u rewire, Reason's volume doesnt corrolate with cubase's. So basically, does any of this matter? Or is the master mixer the only thing I really need to focus on.
Thanks in advance for ur help. I really need help on this issue heeh. |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 27, 2006 03:24
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-27 01:56, john_c wrote:
stuff
...is the master mixer the only thing I really need to focus on?
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IMO yes. The 32-bit mix engine in SX means that each channel fader has more headroom than you could imagine, and it's only when the audio is converted to fixed-point in order to be output (ie. at the master fader) that signals over -dBFS get clipped. However (also IMO) it's good practise to avoid clipping individual channels as this retains some kind of correlation between fader level and channel volume. Also, I come from an analog background and my skin itches if I see a red light that I didn't turn on deliberately.
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john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
47
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263
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 18:47
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thanks Colin. What about my other question:
How come sometimes I have VSTi playing on Solo, and the master mixer looks fine, nothing is clipping, yet if i attach like a Waves Compressor with a Full-reset setting on, the clipping light is on. Does the clipping light mean, if the instrument was at 0db it would be clipping? I am soooo confused.
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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506
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Posted : Jan 27, 2006 20:32
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same with some eq's - it happens to me on Voxengo's Gliss.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
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C3PO
IsraTrance Junior Member
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510
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 23:27
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john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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263
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 23:37
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no its not. the compressor is showing the sound source is constanty clipping even tho the master isnt. |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 28, 2006 01:11
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john c it's not the channel that is clipping... it's the plugin that is clipping. as channels have, plugins have a 0.0 level. it is added to the fader and then you get the output. the problem is that even if the channel is not clipping you may get clipping distortion from the plugin if the plugin's bitdepth is not enough to contain all the extra headroom that is above 0.0. i don't know how much headroom you have but i would keep no clips in every plugin just for safety
the cause of this is a sound source being too loud. this is the sample (i doubt you would add a clipping sample) or a synthetizer or maybe a EQ plugin before. check your plugins before that one and lower their levels, same goes for the synth.
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john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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263
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 01:43
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thanks e-motion but it doesnt explain why the plugin is still clipping in the first place, when the master is ok with it. Now the problem is, of course I can reduce my VSTi's volume before it goes to the plugin, but then I have to reduce the volume of everything else otherwise the VSTi will be too quiet, so it seems like its taking a step back you know?
Here's one thing I dont get though.
Lets take an example of Albino VSTi loaded up, with a Waves C1 compressor attached as a plugin. Now suppose that the C1's clipping light is red and blinking. How come, moving the Albino channel fader doesn't help, but moving Albino's volume knob in the VSTi itself DOES fix the clipping issue. Isnt volume, volume? To me, its almost like Waves C1 is telling me: Albino would be clipping for you, if the Albino Channel volume was at 0 (even if it currently is at like -15). Does this make sense? Can somebody please explain?
I guess if anything, I should leave all the channel faders, midi faders, etc at zero, and only play with the volume inside the VSTi then?? |
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 2, 2006 05:30
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indeed you'll get clipping inside the c1 compressor, because every plugin is prefader. when you investigate the send channel on the same window (right hand side) you will find a prefader knob. now for insert fx you won't have the possibility to choose, because it's always a prefader effect.
as some people already suggested, you shouldn't take much care of clipping unless you clip the master output. but as people say who worked with analog equipment, try to not clip anywhere. adjust the vst you're working on so it doesn't clip. on top of every volumefader on cubase you got a pregain where you can reduce or increase the volume. for reference you can try to set the fader to 0 for albino and set the pregain so your output goes for let's say -8 db (fullscale)... now use your ears and a dedicated spectrum analyzer. be sure to cut out the low harmonics (let's say below 250) to make space for your banging kick and bassline... now the master shouldn't clip anymore.
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