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COMPRESSION!!
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Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 17:04:45
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Im having trouble understanding compressors...
i would like to understand how to compress things....
for example, how do you go about compressing a full on KbBb bass-line>? how do you start? do you pull the threshold down to a predefined amount or its a case-by-case thing...what depends on how much you pull the threshold....
how do you use the attack and release settings properly....?
how abou the ratio slider, what is it really used for?
any information about YOUR way of compressing bass-lines, kicks, snares, hats, leads, Fx, etc.... would be highly appreciated!!
thanks guys for everything...
  saii.rave.ca |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 17:15
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Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 17:18
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I double that Medea... 
saii.rave.ca |
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Tribute
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
157
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 17:37
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Hmm.. what sould i say?
I think i triple that xD
Much to learn about compression.. lets compress all these compression threads to a mother of all xD |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 17:50
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 19:00
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Quote:
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On 2008-08-14 17:04:45, Saii wrote:
any information about YOUR way of compressing bass-lines, kicks, snares, hats, leads, Fx, etc.... would be highly appreciated!!
thanks guys for everything...
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I don't.  At least very little. I hardly use any compression on individual elements these days. Just get the sounds right without compression and things will sound much cleaner.
UnderTow |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1220
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 19:16
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the threshold on a compressor depends pretty much on the level of the incoming signal.
compressors work like this:
they are there to reduce the level of a signal when it goes over a certain db-value (threshold) by a ratio. little example: incoming signal -10db, threshold -20db, ratio 2:1...the output will be at -15db (the amount above the threshold (10db) got reduced by 1/2 (ratio 2:1))
attack is the time the comp needs to get to the full reduction introduced by threshold & ratio, and release is the time to fade out after the signal went under the threshold value. so short attack & release times will result in pumping for example.
knee defines if the compressor starts hard at the threshold value (knee=0) or if the compressor will slightly start already a bit before the threshold and will take to a bit over the threshold till the full ratio is introduced (knee=1).
I never really used compression either on individual tracks, and when I use compression its mostly for sounddesigning purpose than for mixing.
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 20:36
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Quote:
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On 2008-08-14 17:04:45, Saii wrote:
Im having trouble understanding compressors...
i would like to understand how to compress things....
for example, how do you go about compressing a full on KbBb bass-line>? how do you start? do you pull the threshold down to a predefined amount or its a case-by-case thing...what depends on how much you pull the threshold....
how do you use the attack and release settings properly....?
how abou the ratio slider, what is it really used for?
any information about YOUR way of compressing bass-lines, kicks, snares, hats, leads, Fx, etc.... would be highly appreciated!!
thanks guys for everything...
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I try to leave the transients of the signal untouched (attacktime) and try to release the compression fast enough to bring up the gain reduction to zero until the next important transient signals come over. With the ratio-setting I try to be soft enoug to keep the signal natural, and with the treshold I just controll the amount of input. Sometimes I add some softknee-curve especially on bus-signals. I like compression especially to melt things together in busses or to give things more presence without the need of equing.
Talking about numbers, it realy depends on the signal. But I often watch the gain reduction meter aiming for a maximum of not more than maybe 2-6 db.
Other thing is, I love sidechaining and gating - but thats another story.
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 22:29
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Quote:
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On 2008-08-14 17:04:45, Saii wrote:
how do you start? |
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First decide what it is you are going to do. Why are you using compression?
Compression can:
-make two seperate sounds 'gel' (good for percussion, kick and bass, etc).
-make sounds that go from too quiet to too loud be more consistent
-make bass more aggressive
-Make your kick less snappy
-Make good sounds sound better
-Make good sounds sound like shit
When in doubt, don't use it. The most common use I have for it is making sounds that go from too quiet to too loud or vice versa. Sound FX and really dynamic leads need this a lot, not so much kicks and bassline. The idea here is setting the threshold to be triggered by a peak in the sound - then you set the ratio to compress that peak (make it quiet relative to everything else). Then you set the attack/release so that the compressor isn't so obvious. Lastly you use makeup gain to bring the overall sound volume up. Now that quiet portion is more loud (brought up by the makeup gain) while the peak isn't ear-splitting (because it's being compressed). The Threshold is how you tell the compressor what constitutes a 'peak'.
But regardless of what I'm using a compressor to do, I usually I follow this method:
Set Threshold to 0.0dB.
Set Attack to 0ms.
Set Release to maximum.
Set the Ratio high, say 8 to 1 ratio.
Now, while the sound is playing bring down the threshold until the sound gets quiet - how quiet depends, just bring it down until you hear a difference in the level of sound.
Now bring the release down until you hear the sound 'pump'. The pumping is caused by the compressor backing off the sound quickly, so the sound goes from quiet (compressed) to loud (uncompressed). Obviously a long release (longer than the sound you are compressing) means the compressor stays engaged for the duration of the sound. A shorter release means a shorter duration.
Now turn up your attack a little to give back some of your initial transients. This may be a lot or a little depending on what you are trying to do.
Now bring the makeup gain (or compressor volume out) to bring the sound back up to your desired level.
Lastly I back the ratio down to reasonable levels (not that 8:1 isn't reasonable, it's just a LOT of compression and I try to use as little as is needed). As a rule of thumb once I start going beyond 3:1 I wonder if I should be adjusting my threshold instead. And as always, less is better because you can always add more.
I find that I have to go back through all of these knobs again and again because each one affects the other.
Remember that compression is DYNAMICS CONTROL and in the end each knob affects how the volume in a sound goes up and then back down.
So I use different knobs to adjust volume. In short:
a HIGHER threshold = higher volume
a HIGHER ratio = lower volume
a HIGHER makeup gain = higher volume
a LONGER attack = higher volume
a LONGER release = lower volume
But you must know what each setting does. Read the manual on your compressor. Read these forums. Read my post on this thread where Ott breaks compression down:
http://forum.isratrance.com/compression/2-15412/page4/
Oh good studio monitors help too.
One final note: I am still cautious with compression and consider myself beginner-intermediate in it's use. I would much rather get a sound right in the synth or velocity data or drum machine than try to 'fix' it with compression.
Less is more.
-Fuzz |
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vigge
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
27
Posted : Aug 14, 2008 23:38
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I don't know how helpful that is, i think its just best to play around with a compressor util you understand whats going on (it can take a while).
It's quite logical really when you get it. |
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Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
318
Posted : Aug 15, 2008 10:08
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wow guys...this is actually what i wanted out of your answers!! everything is so great! especially you fuzzikitten...its like a grade A+ paper there....(if i were the teacher askin the questions )
sick guys, this could actually start off as a mother of all threads...great job guys...any more information from anymore producers can make this a very complete thread on compression and is encouraged!
peace
saii.rave.ca |
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Remy [POF]
Principles Of Flight
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
509
Posted : Aug 15, 2008 11:29
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If i could give a set of advice, i would say never compress your kick and bass togheter, i don't compress the kick either, nor the bass.
The secret is to find sounds that are phat.
Clap and open hat however i do compress, one thing that works pretty cool with the claps is distortion/compression/distortion/compression
And on the Open hats, i just compress so that the attack is stronger on the sound.
On 2011-03-08 23:13, moki wrote:
listening only to free music is like having the free possibility to satisfy yourself with thousends of different free sexual acts. |
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Deranger
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
214
Posted : Aug 15, 2008 13:26
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I agree with pof , though i tend to compress kick&bass together and i can't see what's wrong with this method.
i prefer to make the best quality from sounds without compressing,but sometimes i do it to make it sit better in a mix. |
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Remy [POF]
Principles Of Flight
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
509
Posted : Aug 15, 2008 16:53
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Most of the time when you compress kick/bass together (without sidechain) it sorts of crushes the sound, it's really hard to do this without loosing dynamic. I rather use a limiter or cut the subs on the note that is under the kick, then compress.
Anyway just my 2cent.
On 2011-03-08 23:13, moki wrote:
listening only to free music is like having the free possibility to satisfy yourself with thousends of different free sexual acts. |
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sly
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
183
Posted : Aug 15, 2008 18:17
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i prefer just (sidechain) compressing bass without kick.
just reduce about 2-3 dB and make sure that your attack and release settings are long enough. unlike hats and snares bass sounds need a bit more attack time imo.
but yeah i agree, better no comp on bass than no dynamics... |
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