Composition: where to start?

On 2013-04-12 22:39, willsanquil wrote:

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On 2013-04-12 22:07, Nectarios wrote: I should also stress that although I played drums, guitar and bass in bands since the age of 14, I never sat down to learn basic keyboard skills until the first days of playing the Doepfer. So by all means learn some basic keyboard skills while you are at it. Synths are instruments, learn to play some riffs on them. Structure is not a bad advice, it just went out the window when I was in the studio, stoned 99% of the times.

I am excited to come to that point - where I can just sit down, get stoned and flow and not think about what I'm doing but good stuff comes out.

On 2013-04-12 19:36, Nectarios wrote:
I start by rolling a joint.
Then stuff starts falling into place.

Just do whatever you feel like doing at the time. Working with your inspiration, instead of forcing your self to do something, is the best way to go.

On 2013-04-12 21:57, willsanquil wrote:

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On 2013-04-12 21:35, makus wrote: no disrespect either, but this is a bad advice. learn structure? tell that to shpongle, steve roach and frank zappa i consider 'just do what inspires you' MUCH better one, just do take it literally.

This is an interesting answer, because Posford is definitely the producer whose sound I covet the most.

Let's look at the background of some of those people you mentioned

Shpongle -

Simon Posford. Grew up in a musical household, was not classically trained but he is very well versed in quite a range of instruments that he taught himself over the years. In one of the interviews that I've seen where he talks about his youth and musical beginnings he said he 'was that guy in the band that was always saying oh can I have a go on your guitar or your drumset' - just taught himself a buttload of instruments

Raja Ram - Been a flute player since....the 60s?

steve roach - don't know him, his wiki doesn't have much in his early life besides he taught himself how to play the synth at 20

Frank zappa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Zappa#Early_life

"By age 12, he had obtained a snare drum and began learning the basics of orchestral percussion.[12] Zappa's deep interest in modern classical music began[15] when he read a LOOK magazine article about the Sam Goody record store chain that lauded its ability to sell an LP as obscure as The Complete Works of Edgard Varèse, Volume One.[16] The article described Varèse's percussion composition Ionisation, produced by EMS Recordings, as "a weird jumble of drums and other unpleasant sounds". Zappa decided to seek out Varèse's music. After searching for over a year, Zappa found a copy (he noticed the LP because of the "mad scientist" looking photo of Varèse on the cover). Not having enough money with him, he persuaded the salesman to sell him the record at a discount.[16] Thus began his lifelong passion for Varèse's music and that of other modern classical composers."

Both Posford/Raja/Zappa put in many, many years learning the basics of musical structure and form before getting to the zany places they got to...and that's one of the things that I see new producers (and I DEFINITELY include myself in this....) avoid. I know its kind of trite, but you can't break the rules if you don't know them.

Basics. Ever wonder why so much EDM and particularly psytrance is noisy bullshit and is completely devoid of anything interesting? IMO its because everyone wants to look up a youtube video of how to make the sickest psy squelch instead of actually taking the steps to be a musician and learn what that means.

Again, I am in no way accusing you makus or you nectarious of being bad musicians, far from it - I'm just saying that in the context of someone like myself with no musical training background and only a couple years in the game...the advice of 'do whatever you want' isn't very compelling.

I have spent the last 3 years learning pretty much in that way, just following whatever I feel like and that certainly can and has worked to a certain degree...but personally I have noticed a shift recently when I give myself some structured time to practice and learn in addition to that unstructured time.

My 2c - I love you all <3

On 2013-04-13 12:09, makus wrote:


I would say: do whatever you feel like doing at the moment and you will get results. The more you will focus on translating your ideas into sounds the more unique result you will get. And this is what we are lacking today: distinctive character, individuality, singularity, uniqueness. Because everybody knows structure.

On 2013-04-13 10:50, OzMike wrote:


Now I've got my first modular (Foundation 2.0) all my time on writing tunes is out the window, too much patching & tweaking to do

I am excited to come to that point - where I can just sit down, get stoned and flow and not think about what I'm doing but good stuff comes out.