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compactstick
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pr0fane
Moderator
Started Topics :
418
Posts :
3816
Posted : Dec 17, 2008 15:52
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 17, 2008 15:59
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thegooddale
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
626
Posted : Dec 17, 2008 17:37
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Dec 17, 2008 18:18
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Dec 17, 2008 18:25
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On 2008-12-17 18:18, full_on wrote:
I think it is kind of strange that these first 4 Compact Stick releases arrived at Saikosounds at the same time and from 4 different labels. Huge coincidence? Maybe the labels joined together to make it cheaper?
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Either that, or some promotional deal to get a new medium out in the market. You would not say no to a company that wants to cover the printing costs, in order to put your latest release on the new medium.
 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Dec 17, 2008 22:13
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I covered my thoughts in the link I posted on the last page... but to contribute directly to this thread, I can't see how this new format will really improve anything. As it stands, CD sales are low and always dropping. Many threads have come up on IsraTrance where people ask for bonuses and extras to make purchasing the CD more worth it. In fact, bonus material is a great idea--and I applaud the labels for investing in things like remix packages, extra tracks, wallpapers, and so on.
However... what about digital downloads? The end-user experience at a shop like Beatport genuinely sucks. You pay more per track than if you bought the CD, you don't get any cover art, you don't even get a file properly named and tagged, and there certainly isn't any bonus material. The advantages over CDs are limited: convenience, access to vinyl-only material, and you can cherry pick the best tracks from an album or compilation without needing to buy the rest. This is perfectly fine for house or techno or whatever--but psytrance is a genre more closely aligned with the concept of a full release. We value and treasure entire albums... yet I can't think of a place where you get a bulk discount when you buy all tracks on an album. Buying an entire album on Beatport is financial suicide: it often costs two or three times as much as the CD for media of equivalent quality. And, if the rumours are true, many labels are less than enthused with the uptake rate of digital downloads--sales have not been as impressive as they could be.
My argument: another physical format is not going to work. What the labels should be doing is banding together to offer more value for digital downloads. Forget the physical substrate of the CompactStick and just give people a good return on their digital download dollar. If someone wants to buy a single WAV for $2.50 then sure, they're just cherry picking. But it should be possible to provide all the stuff you get on a CompactStick for a $12 or $13 flat rate from the digital download shops. And why not? Inventory and production costs for digital downloads are far below that of any physical medium. Why CDs cost less than abstract arrangements of data in the ethereal realm of the 'net is mind-boggling; it represents a willful failure of the marketplace to provide a more lucrative and cost-effective product to a customer base that is already in revolt.
But as I write in my original article, the market will sort this out.
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goa-ganges
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
66
Posts :
594
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 02:21
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Basilik:
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| This is perfectly fine for house or techno or whatever--but psytrance is a genre more closely aligned with the concept of a full release. We value and treasure entire albums... yet I can't think of a place where you get a bulk discount when you buy all tracks on an album. Buying an entire album on Beatport is financial suicide: it often costs two or three times as much as the CD for media of equivalent quality. And, if the rumours are true, many labels are less than enthused with the uptake rate of digital downloads--sales have not been as impressive as they could be. |
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I think your analysis is wrong here. Long past are the times when psy fans would buy a CD of their favorite producer, just because he was his psy fav. This is something closely related to the lack of good quality that psy has been experiencing year after year. Most psy people today buy tracks for compilations, very distinct from techno and house people who really buy whole CDs. That´s why you go to any major CD retailer like Tower, HMV, and others and see huge shelves of techno and house releases. And NO psy whatsoever. Psy albums don´t sell. Take me and my friends as an example. I used to buy closed albums just because there was a name that made them worth in the cover. Last The Delta release, I loved it, but I could not bring myself to buy it - just picked the best tracks and that was enough.
As for the CS - soon we will see the car sound market flooded with CS players and then that´s the future.
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 18:47
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Perhaps you are right about buying habits--but we have no data to work with here, so who knows? I still think that full artist albums are more of a draw than compilations, but there are also artist albums designed primarily for DJ use (all the same BPM, no overall concept). Anyhow, I would maintain that psytrance fans are generally more "journey-oriented" than techno and house music fans (who value DJ mixes far more than psytrance fans do).
One note about the CS: as far as I know it is developed by some people at Psyshop. I don't imagine their contacts extend into the car audio market. If Sony or one of the other big electronics companies were pushing CS or an equivalent USB key format I could see it taking off and gaining widespread acceptance, but I think this is a "made in psytrance" solution unique to our marketplace. I have noticed that the new Pioneer CD deck will take USB keys as input... but it still seems unlikely to me that another physical substrate will catch up to how prolific laptop DJing with external HDs has become.
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 19:14
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Quote:
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On 2008-12-19 02:21, goa-ganges wrote:
As for the CS - soon we will see the car sound market flooded with CS players and then that´s the future.
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The car sound marked is already flooded with that stuff for more than a year now. You can plug your usb stick or even digital camera card in most car cd/dvd/mp3 players around here (and I live at Brazil).
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 21:15
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Shows what I know, not having a car 
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Feb 28, 2009 13:35
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Being a dedicated buyer of CD's, I'm totally jealous of the extra material released on Vibrasphere and Atmos CS's (in example).
Hope I can download the sample stuff  !! hrhr
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On 2008-12-69 02:21, someone wrote:
USB plug-in's in your CDj's, dvd- CD-, mp3-player and car stereo.
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Got to be annoying with that CompactStick sticking out. One wrong hard move and you break the ducker off lol.
Unless it is a "garage" in your player so that it won't stick out so far.
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positive036
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
559
Posted : Feb 28, 2009 14:17
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[quote]
On 2009-02-28 13:35, Spiitoon Psyton wrote:
Being a dedicated buyer of CD's, I'm totally jealous of the extra material released on Vibrasphere and Atmos CS's (in example).
Hope I can download the sample stuff !! hrhr
I am totally agree. Someone mentioned an extra material to increase cd selling, but now You get CS with this kind of work, but on cd, you can't get it. I 'll not going to buy CS, simply 'cos I like to have a cd in my hands, and for my collection, but I suppose 'cos it's cheaper I'll not going to get bonus material which is, and will be released on CS.
And, for the record "I am not happy about this fact"
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Shahar Indepth
Indepth
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
416
Posted : Mar 1, 2009 12:22
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I have in my hands the ATMOS Compact Stick, and my modest contribution to this topic is that this is a really cool product - great design, and the jewel case that holds it is fookin' awesome.
I havent had the time to check out the bonus content yet, but i think this is a really nice idea, basically for people who want to have MP3 / WAV and still get the artwork (which in the atmos album is groovy), and even support the artist in the process.
I guess I am one of the old fashioned dudes who still believe in the concept of a complete album, so this works for me.
---------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/depthsof |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Mar 2, 2009 13:00
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Well one of the pros compactflash would have is that it takes significantly less time to copy from the stick as opposed to downloading tracks or ripping them from the CD (which also requires the internet for the name database)
So ideally this medium is a free-music distributors dream as data can be copied and passed on. The con of course would be all the viruses it would pick up along the way ... that's until you figure out how to copy protect them.
As a collector, Records/CDs are still the real deal.
As a buyer I think we're all waiting for the industry to drop digital download prices.
I'm with Basilisk with the fact that if this media is not adopted and marketed by a commercial giant it's not really going to make a dent in the market. Also, companies like Sony usually don't support formats they they don't manufacture custom hardware for so the possibilities are slim. |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Mar 2, 2009 14:56
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Quote:
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On 2008-12-19 02:21, goa-ganges wrote:
Basilik:
Quote:
| This is perfectly fine for house or techno or whatever--but psytrance is a genre more closely aligned with the concept of a full release. We value and treasure entire albums... yet I can't think of a place where you get a bulk discount when you buy all tracks on an album. Buying an entire album on Beatport is financial suicide: it often costs two or three times as much as the CD for media of equivalent quality. And, if the rumours are true, many labels are less than enthused with the uptake rate of digital downloads--sales have not been as impressive as they could be. |
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I think your analysis is wrong here. Long past are the times when psy fans would buy a CD of their favorite producer, just because he was his psy fav. This is something closely related to the lack of good quality that psy has been experiencing year after year.
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I'd say its your analysis that is off the wall mate
This just plain doesn't make any sense. Where do these assumptions come from?
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Most psy people today buy tracks for compilations, very distinct from techno and house people who really buy whole CDs.
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Where have you been since the mid-nineties? House and techno are almost always promoted through SINGLES. Which you can still buy of course.
I think we all can see why a psy single won't make much impact whereas a psy album can be a really meaty piece of music.
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That´s why you go to any major CD retailer like Tower, HMV, and others and see huge shelves of techno and house releases. And NO psy whatsoever.
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Wrong. What they have on the shelves is a reflection of a financial analysis as to what will give them the highest return. They're not in business to cater for everyone. Psy sales overall are way too small to justify them stocking those records, it has nothing to do with whether its singles or albums or whatever.
Ever wonder why all psy CD shops (almost) are internet-based. Its because financial gain isn't at the center of the equation. These shops are driven half out of love and you can make a bit of money through the minimal overhead that comes with an internet shop as opposed to a physical one (plus you reach many more people, distribution is typically worldwide....)
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Psy albums don´t sell.
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Psy don't sell.
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Take me and my friends as an example. I used to buy closed albums just because there was a name that made them worth in the cover. Last The Delta release, I loved it, but I could not bring myself to buy it - just picked the best tracks and that was enough.
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So I guess you'd advocate digital downloads? I think that's a good way to go. Personally I love the album concept and I think it fits better for psytrance than most music since its really a storytelling type of music rather than a hit parade. I only have complete albums (digital or physical) in my collection and I wouldn't have it any other way.
You know how a set can blow you away but then when you listen to some of the individual tracks afterwards it doesn't seem as good. This is of course largely DJ skills but it also highlights that psy is context-dependent and that's why I think albums are really sweet
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