Oni Katsu
Li/fe
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 10:46:17
Hey folks, yeah i know i'm making like a new topic ever damn day, but at least it gives this forum a fresh breath from time to time hahha.
So i have this problem, My Kick and Bass do start clipping after export, if i want to lower the subbest sub frequencies on the bass, the volume will increase for some awkward reason. Now, if i want to lower the bass t'ill it stops clipping you almost wont hear it. So i decided to touch the master fader for a change and i had to lower it all the way down to -6.7
Hooray for the master fader! now i have no clipping and still the great power form the lower frequencies
But now its volume will be over halved.
What shall i do folks? might there be a way to increase the volume back up again without the clipping?
EDIT: Oh and i forgot to mention, that neither the kick or bass is hitting the red bar in their individual channel, but it hits the red really high in the main output
http://soundcloud.com/li-fe
I said I like it dirty, not muddy.
makus
Overdream
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 11:00
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 12:05
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 11:12, Oni Katsu wrote:
I know what you mean, many seem to enjoy listening to the music loud, but i think this is a little too low myself
Sounds nice, a little to few percussion, more rhythm elements and tension raisers, maybe more atmospheres aswell.
And you should try this, no matter what everybody say here, like" why you need compressors" and so on, if you want to sound like the pro releases you have to compress every singel channel, and Eq out "unnecessary" freqs... Also cut the kickdrum a bit in the lowend, and cut some lowend on the bass, cut all low freq at percussion, and leads, also cut highend on some stuff aswell, make it a little rounder, but choose what to be upfront and what to be in the back, also make panning.. mix it all a little clever, bang a softclipper and a limiter on it and you get more loudness, easy fix hehe. or send it too mastering.. but really try and compress all channels a little bit or much, you will notice a lot of difference, Try
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/Classic-Compressor-Download-85013.html
yeah i know its not all that easy and ou have to make sure you dont over compress, but generally try and Eq out as much dirt as possible and compress it as hard as you want it, you notice on kickdrums that they get whimpy if you compress them too much, but a little will make then stand out, or you can make them pump more. depends on what you want.. and do work your percussion more in this track, add a loop if you want, nothing wrong with that, do chop it up so you have more freedom to arrange it and introduce it slowly... and add your own perc too.. more bangs and stuff, reverb is good styff
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 12:11
Btw most mastered tracks are clipping nowdays..
some clip all the time some just spike, its not distortion but sound is on the limit.. remember the figures dont say if its a clean mix or not. its just figures...
but generally it will feel better to not be on the limit all the time... as distortion makes square, its not round and pleasant like a sine... so even if its very sinus your track will be square because its pushed over the limits just to sound louder, not feel louder... it wont be felt as much as a dynamic rich and freqs rich track, but that track will sound lower and need more power....
Though generally people listen more to composition and arrangement... quality is most of the time secondary so as a musician you should work most on composition and its much a waste of time with technicalities...
but thats not totally true, still, its true that often we want to learn how to master sound quality than later on we move into serious composition
elastic_plastic
Re-Boot
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112
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1612
Posted : Jan 12, 2011 12:19
well if ur using fl studio mayb try bouncing the sample through edison
Ive had a problem with the volumes clipping when i had a limiter on the master or a heavy compression on the kick or the bass. Have u tried removing those 2 off the mixer bus and den exporting it?
also one more thing keep ur master channel clean tht is without ne limiting or compression.
do let me know if it helped
makus
Overdream
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82
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3087
Posted : Jan 12, 2011 14:10
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 11:12, Oni Katsu wrote:
I know what you mean, many seem to enjoy listening to the music loud, but i think this is a little too low myself
Am i right? or is this just fine?
o_o
not sure you understood what i meant. what i was talking about is leaving headroom for mastering. your mix should not be as loud as mastered track. and it seems you are trying to get the high volume (around -10 rms) from the mix. just for the sake of numbers - when i export track for mastering it is -20-18 rms.
don't use limiters on master while mixing - they will fix the consequences of incorrect mixing, but won't fix the reason. finding and fixing the reason will give you much better results.
www.overdreamstudio.com
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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158
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5306
Posted : Jan 12, 2011 14:59
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 12:11, Freeflow wrote:
Btw most mastered tracks are clipping nowdays..
you meen distorted.. 16bit (audio cd) cannot take clip , data just going blank and it will show 0 db (squared its true)
i remember ido domestic said here once he thinks its the best limiter www.sattelbattle.com http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 15:18
i like your song dude!
I think you have a problem that happened to me also, and it's the kickbass endless tweaking , one day on some other thread i read the kickbass should be at around -10db (or around that area),that opened up all my way of looking at things and gave space for the mix itself, i'm not a pro, and still learning (alot), but that advice came in handy
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 16:24
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 14:59, Elad wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 12:11, Freeflow wrote:
Btw most mastered tracks are clipping nowdays..
you meen distorted.. 16bit (audio cd) cannot take clip , data just going blank and it will show 0 db (squared its true)
i remember ido domestic said here once he thinks its the best limiter
hey Elad, yeah well maybe with clipping we are all assuming that red means distortion. If to trust the meters going red is being close to the limit, but real distortion happens when you exceed this by some dB´s
Like on Vu meter you got 0 then going red up to 3dB more, i really dont know if this is the same in the digital world, but you can really get clipping indication without distortion, isnt it so? But of course depends on the signal.
Also i read that some professional CD players can handle hot signals better...
And yeah i heard some people using Idos way, but also to record the signal very hot almost at red and come up with a much clearer signal, but this clarity what has it to do with, some kind of saturation that happens? cause here we are talking about the phenomenon of distortion and saturation and what it does to a signal, adding more harmonics? making the sound, sound more fuller...
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 17:43
Quote:
if you want to sound like the pro releases you have to compress every singel channel
Would you elaborate on this statement my friend?
Is is true? Which pro releases are you sure have been single channel compressed... what kind of compressor and settings would one aim for?
Cheers.
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 18:05
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 17:43, aciduss wrote:
Quote:
if you want to sound like the pro releases you have to compress every singel channel
Would you elaborate on this statement my friend?
Is is true? Which pro releases are you sure have been single channel compressed... what kind of compressor and settings would one aim for?
Cheers.
Hey aciduss!
well a statement not entirely true but experimenting with it can yield some very clean results. sometimes you might not want to compress everything, but sometimes you can really make different comp settings that will help with clarity and mixing
I am pretty sure that most top producers use a lot of compression on almost every channel, it really brings the sounds upfront and enable you to mix better, this is because squeezing the sounds together, from peak to rms will give more density, I,e you get more meat out of the sounds. this makes its easier to hear a sound at low level cause its compact and not only peaks.
Also you can try the method Elad is talking about but when recording the sounds very hot almost too hot and export. But you can also compress very hard or medium hard with lots of volume gain to get the loudness back.
i cant give you any settings, i my self often experiment, what kind of compressor you use should be someone you like and you get nice results from. I like classic compressor, but im sure there are much better. but to dare you to try it, and put it on all channels, go for the first preset and just play around with threshold and maybe lower the gain if necessary, also ratio with what you think sounds good... sometimes its nice to mess with attack and release also to get pumping or just make the snare drum wimpy or pumping, or the kick.. it would be stupid to put it on kick if it dont sound good, but then again you can tweak it so it does sound good, and of course not same settings on all sounds, then you could just strap it over the entire mix, my thoughts here are that you work both Eq and compress and really try and tweak the compressor to work good to bring out the cleanest signal
just try it, take a track you have already done, preferable its all audio project. and listen how much more clear it will sound. make a new mix, using more compressor and EQ and also panning. but dont overdo it. also sometimes you can put distortion to make a signal pop out and sound clean, then it wont hurt to EQ and comppress it aswell, if it sounds good, it often is...
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 18:55
Thanks a lot man!
Quote:
I am pretty sure that most top producers use a lot of compression on almost every channel, it really brings the sounds upfront and enable you to mix better, this is because squeezing the sounds together, from peak to rms will give more density, I,e you get more meat out of the sounds. this makes its easier to hear a sound at low level cause its compact and not only peaks.
I understand the why, not for the how... Well i wasn't asking for specific parameters but rather an overview on the approach one should have when working on a specific sound... say for example: lead, drums, fx...
Most of the time i hesitate a lot on the use of compressors because i don't know how much attack / release should i use.
I try to use the reduction meter as a guide so it gets moving in a "dynamic" way and use gain as a compensation tool... for drums or percussive i use like 10-20 ms of attack and a short release so i get the transients more present but wouldn't know how to think when working with other sounds, any tip here would be light in the dark for me.
I do understand how a compressor works and even i do experiment, listening to a compressor work is a little hard and can get confusing, also it is said that if you are actually listening to the compressor then it is working too much since it should be imperceptible and just there for that enhancement.
Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
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134
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Posted : Jan 12, 2011 19:04
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 18:05, Freeflow wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-12 17:43, aciduss wrote:
Quote:
if you want to sound like the pro releases you have to compress every singel channel
Would you elaborate on this statement my friend?
Is is true? Which pro releases are you sure have been single channel compressed... what kind of compressor and settings would one aim for?
Cheers.
Hey aciduss!
well a statement not entirely true but experimenting with it can yield some very clean results. sometimes you might not want to compress everything, but sometimes you can really make different comp settings that will help with clarity and mixing
I am pretty sure that most top producers use a lot of compression on almost every channel, it really brings the sounds upfront and enable you to mix better, this is because squeezing the sounds together, from peak to rms will give more density, I,e you get more meat out of the sounds. this makes its easier to hear a sound at low level cause its compact and not only peaks.
Also you can try the method Elad is talking about but when recording the sounds very hot almost too hot and export. But you can also compress very hard or medium hard with lots of volume gain to get the loudness back.
i cant give you any settings, i my self often experiment, what kind of compressor you use should be someone you like and you get nice results from. I like classic compressor, but im sure there are much better. but to dare you to try it, and put it on all channels, go for the first preset and just play around with threshold and maybe lower the gain if necessary, also ratio with what you think sounds good... sometimes its nice to mess with attack and release also to get pumping or just make the snare drum wimpy or pumping, or the kick.. it would be stupid to put it on kick if it dont sound good, but then again you can tweak it so it does sound good, and of course not same settings on all sounds, then you could just strap it over the entire mix, my thoughts here are that you work both Eq and compress and really try and tweak the compressor to work good to bring out the cleanest signal
just try it, take a track you have already done, preferable its all audio project. and listen how much more clear it will sound. make a new mix, using more compressor and EQ and also panning. but dont overdo it. also sometimes you can put distortion to make a signal pop out and sound clean, then it wont hurt to EQ and comppress it aswell, if it sounds good, it often is...
I have the same problem as u Aciduss, and this is a pretty good and simple explanation for someone like me who's trying to understand compressing for ages now
Big for Freeflow
Trevon
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6
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376
Posted : Jan 12, 2011 20:14
sometimes adding an EQ, just to cut bellow 30hz and above 17khz.. makes the track peaks to clip I noticed that on soundforge. it happened with the inbluit EQ and kjaerhus golden eq..
why that happens? is it something related to phase?
for Freeflow 
