| Author
|
Click of the bass?
|
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : May 4, 2009 22:55:22
|
Hello. Lately after a few nights of bassline obssesion i would like to discuss 'click' of the bass often achieved by short filter decay and noticable filter envmod.
I've been testing numerous bassline vsts and bass sounds. What i'd like to know is about your personal settings/taste on this particular characteristic of the bassline since i find crucial to phine tweak this parameters in adition with eq, compressors, transient shapers, distortion, etc so you:
- match the click of the kick
- provide sharpening to the sound's attack
- could enhace or ruin your bass dynamics
Also... how does this affect in a big PA and what's your personal advice to achieve TIGHT basslines.
I'm actually working with selfmade kicks created in ableton's operator + distortion + eq pretty nices kicks i get from that simple plugin. For bass i've tryed everything from TAU to my nord micro; cronox2, basstation, audiorealism, trilogy, scoprion, hydra, albino, etc etc
And it is not that i don't like my basslines is just that i find there are so many different setups and thus the final character of the clickness, and of course you can make basslines with no click but mostly i like them better with a nice pinch that adds power to the sound.
One of the troubles i have ran into is that sometimes it sounds really nice and tight when playing one note bassline say for example 'C' but when i move it to other tones or i have a melodic riff then the magic is gone and all sounds lazy and i find it closely related to this clicking issue.
So well. Any advice and / or comment is very welcomed. Thanks for your time. |
|
|
orbit
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
108
Posted : May 5, 2009 03:48
|
hey mate, just to enlighten you on your last question, if you are moving your bassline up or down semitones, make sure you take into consideration that frequency's change as you move up and down the keyboard, so if you have eq'd your bass in 'C' (which has harmonics of 32.7, 65.4, 130.8 etc), so lets assume you want to shift a note up to 'D',all eqing on harmonics and inharmonics would be wrong because 'D' has harmonics of 36.7,73.4, 146.8.
so my advice mate, if you make note changes treat them seperatly and eq according to there fundamental freqs.
hope this helps man. |
|
|
|
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : May 5, 2009 04:25
|
Do people actually do that? Eqing note by note? I think that woul be a little complicated. I understand the harmonics thing but don't know about the actual procedure to even up things.
thanks |
|
|
|
jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
1493
Posted : May 5, 2009 11:44
|
eq note by note, na i dont, i just eq what sounds bad.. eg hipass at 40hz, the lo shelf 80hz how ever many -db depends how loud, roll off highs, and maybe a notch somwhere.
i started eqing the kick more so the bass line and gettin use to Multiband compression. ozone 4 is the tits for this, to your question aciduss why not use multiband compressor on the click part band @ 1000-8000khz or whatever
also im gunna start using Dynamic Eqs with sidechains- (not compressor sidechain)
|
|
|
|
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : May 5, 2009 19:11
|
Thanks jizy. Could you point me in the right direction with ozone's multiband compressor? how do you treat each band i mean like which ones are your goals with applying multiband compression and how do you manage to achieve them (ratios?attack-release settings?).
|
|
|
|
Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
538
Posted : May 5, 2009 21:08
|
I only use multiband compression if I want to get a very specific sound.. it's not really necessary to get a tight deep bassline.
I hipass 30hz and will take small notches out that sound bad but I always end up removing any big notches near 30-300hz .
for my decay, I like it to be really snappy, not CLICKY.. I hate trilogy's envelopes, I dunno why. and I love operator for this, operator is my favorite bass synth lately. especially in the albeton 8 upgrade.
I've been automating and modulating more things on my basslines lately, like the envelope amount > filter cutoff, and automating the decay also is pretty fun. |
|
|
|
jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
1493
Posted : May 5, 2009 21:42
|
zoopys right, but thas just what of started doing only if the enevlopes on synths are shit, i will use multiband, think of it as another sound shaper to craft it to your sound.
the click you can achieve it by 0 cutoff, 0 attack a tiny amount of decay a fraction above decay, sustain, 0release on filter env. or use amp envelopes - fuk all decay all others on 0 apart from release (tiny amount also.
use the Mod Matrix on synths to assign Velocities to filter env, volumes etc
As for the multiband just be creative ive only just started getting the hang of Multiband Comps n crossover Freqs within.
if it sound good it is good. always check in headphones espescially when usin multband compressors, not unless your room cost you a fortune hehe
just be creative mate, yeah as for trilogy there is alot of surgical eqing involved.
|
|
|
|
jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
1493
Posted : May 5, 2009 21:48
|
but this what i have been doin as experiment
Kick and bass to a group send with multiband Compressor. (ozones) take alot of care tho as the Dynamics can be ruined very quikly.
there is no real setting, the dnyamics have a way of showing you what iz right
|
|
|
|
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
123
Posts :
1397
Posted : May 5, 2009 22:00
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-05-05 04:25, aciduss wrote:
Do people actually do that? Eqing note by note? I think that woul be a little complicated. I understand the harmonics thing but don't know about the actual procedure to even up things.
thanks
|
|
no i dont eq note by note, never thought of that, sounds to me like a lot of work in the automation of the Eq, because you probably have to automate several notches and in sx3 which i use, the automation is not so nice to work with.
but sometimes i automate synth parameters per note, supposed for fullon you have one note 3 semitones higher, it can loose the sound or the snap and that can be compensated sometimes by putting just on that note the cutoff more open or more closed. and on a one note bassline it sometimes also brings some nice variation.
|
|
|
|
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : May 7, 2009 18:29
|
Who likes melodic basslines anyway, mono-tone is teh way to go nowadays xD
JK
I have found that i preffer basslines which have a very small click but they actually sound better in one note basslines. Maybe it has something to do with the way a synth runs the filter affecting harmonics and stuff...
I've been checking some melodic basslines that i like and they mostly sound like a more open envelope, not so clicky and snappy but with more body so i believe it works by leting the actual tone have more "space" thus presence and rich in harmonics.
Thank you all for your cooperation. I guess i'll move on to percussion or something else because lateley i've been so inside-thebassline that i'm sure i'm creating nice basslines but i'm acting really picky about detailes like "the click of the bassline" i want to creat the perfect rolling bassline 
Cheers Isratrance |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : May 7, 2009 18:43
|
sometimes clicky basslines sound horrible at high volume , mines do(too percusive, it kill the groove and the smoothness between notes),it s come from getting the snap from the env filter but i get always better result when it comes from the amp env .
when doing kick and bassline and for all the mixing in general change often the listening volume for better result . |
|
|
|
roigt0r
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
83
Posted : May 7, 2009 20:19
|
Quote:
|
I love operator for this, operator is my favorite bass synth lately. especially in the albeton 8 upgrade.
|
|
Wow, thanks for this. Tried it out last night and I'm really impressed...very easy and sounds awesome. Can't believe I never noticed this little synth before.
I'm still running 7, what are the differences as far as Operator goes in Live 8? |
|
|
|
roigt0r
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
83
Posted : May 7, 2009 20:19
|
|
double post |
|
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : May 8, 2009 02:13
|
|
what about the click of the mouse?
|
|
|
|
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : May 8, 2009 04:14
|
|
