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Changing Notes on the bassline, Changes Subfreqs. Please Help!
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Aug 4, 2006 16:15
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Hei friends,
I've encountered this old problem but never learned a good way to resolve it. What i mean. its simple. As my bass line goes it changes the notes acordingly with the seq right? but this changes the frequencies in the dynamics. If the note is F its boosting some particular freqs. If it changes it changes the freq also. If my bass is good equalized the diference is not very notable and also it dont bothers. but as i change the whole pattern of the bass, like 3-4 tones up or down, sure i loose or boost freqs on the sub bass range and this sounds horrible!!! its almost unnotable on phones but on monitors Yes! and is annoying and disturbing. So my question is. What can one do so that this problem disapears. One thing I thought is make diferent equalization for evry change of the bass pattern? its one solution but... is there something more flexible out there???
thanks in advance friends
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www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
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xaBBu
xaBBu
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
161
Posted : Aug 4, 2006 16:54
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Yeah, I know exactly what you are talking of.
Automating the eqing and compression plugs you use
during the track will help get the dynamics of the harmonics of your bass right... but ...
... first of all check for any bass enhancement plugs and their center frequencies. RBass for example will mess with the harmonics of your bassline everytime you change its key.
The only thing to get over all this is to sample your bassline notewise or even partwise with the correct eqing/processing settings and use a sampler to play it back. This is also good for
reusing a bassline in a different track and not have all the hassle all over again.
Another thing that can help is a multiband compressor so you can keep certain frequency bands in bounds with the rest -once it starts hitting the threshold- so that they do not eat up space of the other bands. But be carefull with this one on basslines, and be sure to use a linear compressor!
But sometimes it can even be so simple as to retweak the synth/sampler you use for the bassline... Some problems just can not be resolved completely by postprocessing.
Anyone else with suggestions ? I am really curious about other solutions to this one, too!  |
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Aug 4, 2006 17:33
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wow my friend xaBBu
thank u thank u! u're 100% right. I use rbass... normally i use it very carefully. for the problem bass my channel chain is as this:
*lowcut - 35hz
*rbass - boost=70hz, intensity= -7db, tresh= -0,2
*FatEq(logic5.5)= slight equing on the 50hz(-1db), 200hz(+1db), and some more small on other upper freqs.. but very slight
*Compressor - sidechained with the kik, slight settings= 1,6 ratio, release short, attak instant, thresh like -20db
bass comes from junglist vst.
so with this minum setting the bass sounds great if u put it like 4-5 tone down there is an explosion of subbass freqs eventhough i've cut them with the lowcut and the EQing... i think the Rbass is the main reason for this big diference.
The idea of sampling my bas en equing it note by note i think is just Great!!!! if nothing else i can find I'll use it! firts will try with dynamic equing, like.. i'll prepare 4-5 diferente seting of the eq and will change them acordingly with the bas...
there arent imposible things! and sure as xabbu told, if there is some othre idea SHARE IT WITH US!!!!
Sound:
www.myspace.com/oxidelic
www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
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Fugga
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
203
Posted : Aug 4, 2006 22:15
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Aug 4, 2006 22:25
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dont waste much energy into finding a solution for it. be thankfull! it makes your bass groovy and moving.
anyway every tone-change needs a new eq-setting if you want to match it perfectly because the eq depend on the frEQuences. a good solution would be the poco dyn-EQ. if you dont have it, split the bassline into different channels each with a different eq-set. this might help: http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
again, i wouldnt do that. a bass must move.
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Aug 4, 2006 23:04
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acoustics.
you only think that it changes - but it's not.
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : Aug 4, 2006 23:46
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Well, the most simple thing you can do is to change the bassline instrument or to find the best preset for it...
Here my advices :
1) Never start a track untill you choose the best drum samples and best bassline soft & presset for it.
2) Try to avoid, bassline formulas that requires lots of changes, and big differences between the notes.
3) Always use bass presets with single oscillator.
(specially on "Full On" basslines)
4) Try to learn some basics about music composition (specialy - the bass part).
{If your bass formula is musically corect, than even if there will be small changes in the freqs, those won't affect your track too much}
5) Play your tracks on many different sound systems before you start cutting or compressing freqs, and nver trust 100 % your monitors or speakers... It can full you !!!
6) Afther you start a new track & new bassline, remove the very low freq & you put a compressor on it... than....take a long break untill the second day !!!
On the second day, listen it very carefully, and if it doesn't sound good...erase everthing !!!!!!!!!!!!
No metter how much compression, eq's, enhancers.... you will try to do later, it will never sound perfect, and you will never be satisfied 
BOOM !!!
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Aug 5, 2006 00:03
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hey ppl, wow THAX for all advices. I see wisdom, tips and knowledge in evry single reply i've got. THANK U ALL!!!
i think i didnt expressed myself very clear. Its a trak that is preselected for releasing (thats why i cannot put an example here). everything goes fine, i've heard it on diferente types of headphones, crappy pc speakers, home hi-fi's, on studio monitors (in this case warfedale monitors), etc. there is no problem at all but its just one moment where i really change drastically the bass. i mean i change the pattern like almost 5-6 tones down... (sorry i'm not at my place now and do not remember wich tonality it was ehehe), and as its just a break in the trak there is no problem at all. But! when i heard the trak on the warfedale's monitors i felt this strong subbas boost from the bass... now seeing MikeA post i think this was generated cuz the studio where i've listen it has a distance not suficient from the monitor to the front wall so some kind of resonace is generated...
in general the bass line in this particular trak is a straight one with small groovy note variations on some of the 16teens. and thus it sounds ok. so i dont know if the problem is generated because of bad acustics in the studio... or something else..
anyway, i've learned a lot here, but i prefer to generate my bas from an instrument than from a sampled files. even if they are 24bit.
dont know if its alright..
thanks again mates
Sound:
www.myspace.com/oxidelic
www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
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parapsyched
Scratch 22
Started Topics :
72
Posts :
548
Posted : Aug 5, 2006 07:28
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if it wasn`t the accoustics maybe you should just post process the part which had the subs boost ?
if u dig deep enough u just might reach the sky...
"dream is destiny"
http://www.scratch-22.com |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Aug 6, 2006 04:10
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Quote:
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On 2006-08-04 23:04, Mike A wrote:
acoustics.
you only think that it changes - but it's not.
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that sometimes very true 
exept this u can try diffrent stuff to clean sub area..
first in synth u have the option of filter fit to note (KBD track) , like in discovery and nordlead
i like to use abit x-hum to make natural higpass filter (i find it sound better then req6 harsh cuts) start from 100hz and go down till you got all you need and nothing more.. and its natural purpose with the eq cuts is worth trying now...
beside that you can try harsh reduction with sharp bell (Q) in the area of 100hz to 150 hz with extra eq...
also compressor (c1,rcomp,rvox,l2 limiter) will help this and even better multiband compressor (c4,ozone,ultrafunk,& native sequencer one - each program has its own )
surprize! trick complete 
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Aug 7, 2006 23:36
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Also one more trick, sometimes it can work,
change the pitch of the kick acording to the baseline... cause most of the time you want the kick and bass to hum together, if you change the pitch of the baseline the kick wont follow.....
though im with mantik here, it gives motion to the bass and when it gets on the "right" tone" its a nice tension raiser...
right now im doing some melodic trance and the baseline follows the melody which goes up and down here and there... if the bass gets too hollow its always a possibllity to arrange the sounds so these parts gets filled with more sounds or some agro lead which takes more freq space in the concernd area..
work the track to your advantage...
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Aug 8, 2006 15:57
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wow wow MORE TIPS!!! ppl!! thank u all. I've already tryed a lot of the tecniques here. as in my particular trak i was using junglist vst for the bass I've automated some of the osc parametrs along the trak so that the bass becomes more dense or more weak depending on its note structure. But!!!!!
Mr.TSABEAT, 1st I'm big follower of your music, like a lot your work, innovative, and very brave experiments, and yes I've tryed also this x-hum function and wow this surprised me ofcourse. but as u said I start to hum function from 100hz but i think it eats too much of the subas eventhough the you are absolutely right that the bass sounds like more "transperent" more air in it. but have to experimetn more with the x-hum cuz it also "eats" too much of the low freqs if just applyed with default settings. ANd 4 the discovery, wow yeah, i found its kbd-trak but still haevent experiment with it...
anyway ppl
GREAT TIPS!!! ALL!!!!
100% admiration
Sound:
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www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
www.antumbra-studio.com |
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scobbah
Kiriyama
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
991
Posted : Aug 9, 2006 00:42
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Sometimes when I quite drastically lower the key of the bassline, it may feel like its creating more subs and it may lose some of its power and sharpness. Facing such problems, I've tried to sample the bassline during respective part of the track, both the original bassline (the subby one) if needed, and the same part but played in a higher octave. Then I've layered them and compared the result by volume and frequency spectrum with the original bassline (from a more tense part of the track where the bass blows you like it should...). Sampling an octave higher and layer it may at times give you the necessary sharpness you may lose when switching to a much lower key... at least it does the trick for me. Perhaps you should try to apply the technique and see wether it may solve your problem?
Good luck.. 
PS. If my message is unclear, please tell me and I'll try to write a new post tomorrow if I get a few minutes to spare, because my head is spinning right now... soo tired....
Ciao!
Aural transmissions from the deep forests of Sweden
www.dvsmrecords.org - 'Patterns II EP' by Silent Horror out now! |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Aug 10, 2006 14:05
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another problem with bass line is a classic octave tune. Since we divide octave in 12 equal parts that makes some tones flat and some sharp. Benefit of this tune is that we can change the octave up or down and play the tune in the same key regardles to the octave.
Many other cultures and countries have a different tunings (microtuning). Try to play with microtuning and soon you'll find that there are scales and tunes where every tone sounds good. In fact, a lot of trance music is done with different microtunings.
The circle of the 5ths is also affected by this. When tunned in natural way instead the circle of the 5ths you have a spiral of the 5ths... the vortex of the 5ths if you like.
Clasic "western" 12 tone octave tune seams to have a hidden purpose... it sounds VERY unnatural and the number of natural key modulations is very small. The Ohm frequency is 68,05 Hz and that frequency can not be played with clasic 12 tone octave split. Coincidence? I don't think so. Traditional Indian, Japanese and Orient music is mostly made with different tunings and different scales. Any meditative music is almost certainly done with different tuning.
Experiment a bit... you'll be amazed.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Aug 10, 2006 20:36
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i've tried almost all the tips here and the WINNER IS?
TSABEAT + some enhancements.
wow ppl, applying this x-hum in case of a standart EQ or lowcut opens suficient space and air in the subs region so that the next part (over 60hz and up) sounds bouncing and not muddy. wow! is the only thing i can say! what a change in the whole dynamics of the trak!!! when I compared my bass in sepctrum analizers, with a standart low cut at 20-30hz there is almost no diference, but with the x-hum!! wow!! it makes almost a brickwall cut of this freqs, so all the trak get much more transparent sound, the bass got warmth, power and texture (my channle setings in this case are: x-hum, lil rbass, lil eq, compressor sidechained with the kik). when i have some small games with the bass notes I'm just playing with the velocities of the notes and the problem is resolved.
Tsabeat made my day bro!!!! greeat tip!!!!
Sound:
www.myspace.com/oxidelic
www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
www.antumbra-studio.com |
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