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changing from ableton to cubase
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 02:38
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On 2013-01-31 23:12, willsanquil wrote:
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On 2013-01-31 22:33, TimeTraveller wrote:
Will read my post again. Just from the first sentence is best. There is actually nothing more to add about it.
Sure they are differently coded with different algorythms.All is effected the sound.
A test wasn't done so far by anybody, atleast not a scientific one,I guess because it makes already sense even when ears are not that sensible. Each of this sequencers are differently coded with different algos.It would be nice to read and watch one skilled work about it though.
You can make a analysis about it like a skilled work if you have that time, bounce same file through the outputs and make a concrete analysis.
And no.. masters by degree and lecturers about electro engineering and digital technique ( dunno if it is correct term digital engineering maybe in english) are not without reasons masters by degree and indeed they are smart.
It is maybe funny to claim something what I never said as you put in quatation marks but it is lame because I did not said it like this.
but nice 
Sure, they sound different because they were coded by different algorithms. And it is all about sound nothing else.
Sorry cannot help you with it more. For me it is enough, actually up from reason + cubase times my ears knew a difference. It is ok to believe what anybody wants.
Lots of times this disscussion were here, but actually this is the answer.
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The thing i put in quotes was a paraphase of what you said. Just didn't feel like quoting back a huge wall.
"Sure they are differently coded with different algorythms."
Yes, I understand that. I am also not disputing that your teacher is a smart guy.
What I am disputing is that people are able to tell the difference between one DAW and another assuming they are using the same plugins, and further that this difference, if it exists at all, is completely insignificant in the context of making music.
If you think ableton is 'warmer' than Cubase, you should be able to tell the difference in a double blind test and be able to score consistently better than a coin toss (50%)
Its super easy to test. Go into Cubase and Ableton. Make a 16 bar loop with a synth preset that they can all use. Bounce.
Now, have someone else (NOT you) play you those files back to you 20x in a random order and you guess which one they come out of.
This is not some guy telling you that its different, its the real deal. You either can tell or you can't. I don't think you can, and I think people talking about the Sonic Signature of DAWs are blowing smoke up people's asses or being fooled by their own biased opinion. I am completely open to being wrong though.
This is similar to the MP3 vs WAV argument. I see many people talk a lot, but never do I see someone back it up with actual facts.
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I said definetly not just my teacher is smart and this is enough - my first senteance was about the audiblee diffrence comes from different algorithsms that were used to code them sequencers and this is it.
But all cool mate no worries.
I have used ableton for a longer time back from these times I had this in mind that the sound is warmer.
Yeah it is normal for me to bounce files and move around to other sequencers. I never rewire , always bounce mosty it goes to protools. but sometime I like to do something in reason for example than I bounce it down and go to cubase later to protools etc.
The same procedure I did when working with ableton, last time I did there with my mate we recorded xylphone trhough ableton and made a few beats for hip hop. Love to make beats in ableton sync is real nice. Now I perfere for beats a bit more renoise. Anyhow I dont have a favourite sequencer all are great.I would always combine. Like it this way.
  https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 03:05
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I'm really not trying to be a nitpicker or a douche here, but saying that they were coded with different algorithms is an answer, but not one that provides any useable information.
Of course they were coded by different people and most likely with different algorithms.
Saying 'there is an audible difference between algorithms' without specifically saying what that audible difference is...is just as informative as saying a Wizard built it with Magic.
That may be true, but that doesn't inform the reader as to what the difference is.
edit: For clarity, I'm not assuming that you or anyone else is going to go over the code line-by-line or anything, but if the difference is so severe that you can detect 'warmth' in ableton vs cubase then that warmth should be relatively easy to quantify, like it boosts the signal in this area of the spectrum or does something specifically to the beginning of the file. You know, something concrete.
This really is staggeringly similar to the MP3/Wave discussion. Is there a difference in the files when you convert? Yes. Is it a hearable difference? No. Though again, I am not the end-all-be-all of information on this particular subject so I could be wrong. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 05:47
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Different sound engines = different sound.
Personally I can not tell the difference.
All I know is that I have yet to hit the "ceiling" of Logic Pro's sound engine. To me it sounds a great/bad as I mix the tunes I am working on.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 14:09
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No it's not Magic it is very simple Will.
Maybe this helps you, when initialize 2 or a few synth's so that no sound comes out when hitting a key then set a saw as oscilator on all - you'd notice they sound also all different. There is the same logic behind.
With sequencers it is very easy to notice this with reason and for instance cubase. Bounce your tracks through reason sound engine and then the same tracks with cubase..I think for many this was like a mighty expirience to me the first time I did it then I had no clue about cubase and used it for quite a long time only to render my reason works through cubase sound engine.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Padmapani
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431
Posted : Feb 1, 2013 18:35
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one way to find out, would be to bounce the same patterns with the same presets in different daws and then sum them with the phase inverted in one of them. the only thing left is the difference. |
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Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 18:55
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On 2013-02-01 05:47, Nectarios wrote:
Different sound engines = different sound.
Personally I can not tell the difference.
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+1 exactly
ps1 from what i'm read on Ableton forum, Live uses 3dB Panning law, so if anybody want to make a comparison, he must make same Pan law in Cubase.
ps2 that comparison will tell that differences exist, but will not tell do any of DAW sounds better that other. Every modern DAW sounds great and good enought to make professional sounding tracks
http://www.beatport.com/release/cross-the-atoms/1042450
http://soundcloud.com/alien-bug
http://www.facebook.com/ali3nBug |
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pressure
Started Topics :
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 18:57
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On 2013-02-01 18:35, Padmapani wrote:
one way to find out, would be to bounce the same patterns with the same presets in different daws and then sum them with the phase inverted in one of them. the only thing left is the difference.
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on pg2 tried it with just a drum loop and left with low level noise up to 6k when it trailed off.. it would be better to test with several actual synths |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 19:10
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On 2013-02-01 18:57, pressure wrote:
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On 2013-02-01 18:35, Padmapani wrote:
one way to find out, would be to bounce the same patterns with the same presets in different daws and then sum them with the phase inverted in one of them. the only thing left is the difference.
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on pg2 tried it with just a drum loop and left with low level noise up to 6k when it trailed off.. it would be better to test with several actual synths
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I wondered what was wrong with that file.. didn't get it now I know.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Suloo
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 19:20
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if i remember right from another discussion its not abletons summing engine wich makes it sound kinda uncomfortable (at least for me) but it is the warp engine since it processes the sample in small grains to make them flexible..
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vipal
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 20:08
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 20:18
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On 2013-02-01 20:08, vipal wrote:
nobody can tell whether a track is made in cubase, live, logic etc. so whats the point?
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Stated here only with the intention to help and give the correct answer as a few years ago. I did not expect to argue about it.
As to the topic I stay as well with same opinion there is definetly no point in having chosen 'the best' sequencer all are good & have its advantages and disadvantages and a few unique options that differ them from each other.
The composition has always much stronger a point than any small sound differences caused by different compressors or sequencers etc IMO.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Sunrise Travellers
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 20:33
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The point is to use the daw that you can work better, the rest is just to make another conversation/debate about...
this is my opinion!
cheers
...into the wild.... |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2013 20:36
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On 2013-02-01 20:18, TimeTraveller wrote:
...there is definetly no point in having chosen 'the best' sequencer all are good & have its advantages and disadvantages and a few unique options that differ them from each other.
The composition has always much stronger a point than any small sound differences caused by different compressors or sequencers etc IMO.
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Totally agree 100%
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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