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Can Anyone explain how to use M/S decoders properly?
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 22, 2009 20:20:38
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i was wonderin the routing tricks to use M/S decoder on Sonaklsis Sterotools, or how and why u use it to get good image on a lead or fx, do u use this on Mono sounds routed to M/S stereo , like Haas or somthing?
cheers
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Apr 23, 2009 00:30
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When you M/S encode a sound the two channels in a stereo audio file no longer represent Left and Right, but the Mid and Side components of the sound. All the information that is common to both L and R goes to the left (Mid) channel, and all the information that is not common to both L and R goes to the right (Side) channel. The Mid contains the mono information, the Side contains the stereo information. To convert it back to Left and Right you generally just pass the audio through the encoder again.
You can do lots with M/S. I don't know the Sonalksis plugin but with an M/S encoder on one end of a plugin chain and a decoder on the end you can for instance:
* Make the bass (or any other frequency band) mono by cutting the bass (etc) on the Side channel, and adding a slight equivalent boost on the Mid channel to compensate if necessary.
* Increase stereo presence in stereo sounds by only compressing the Side channel - very useful for changing stereo reverb level after the reverb has been bounced with the dry sound.
* Make a space in the centre of a stereo sound for a mono lead by EQing the mids out of the Mid channel only - this leaves the mids out to either side unaffected and can really spread a sound.
It can also help in mastering to compress the Mid and Side channels, rather than the Left and Right; with very dynamically stereo tracks this can prevent heavy stereo action from affecting the level of the mono sounds, eg. kick and bass. Also it can really bring out the stereo information in a tune.
I guess you could also get some really interesting Haas-like effects by delaying only the Side channel by a few milliseconds. I imagine this would decorrelate the mono info from the stereo and REALLY widen things up... interesting idea!
M/S encoding on a pure mono sound is not useful on the face of it as there will be nothing on the Side channel, but if you think about it, it opens the possibility for all kinds of wierd and wonderful stereo processing by adding regular stereo FX before the sound is decoded back to L/R... chorus, ping-pong delay; anything that pans the sound or will generate sound in the right channel from a mono input in the left channel will have some kind of effect.
$0.02 
 Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2009 00:46
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thanks an absoulte bunch mate! really clarified things up, its one of those things that i know i need to use to spice things up abit, just how and when cheers.
yeh ive just ventured into the world of mono spatial effects Haas, out of speaker trick (one mono track and another the same duplicated but with its phase inverted and track delyed a few ms etc)
what M/s dec and Enco do you use?
so basically i would have an Fx or lead in stereo send to fx or grp send, one would have the mID and another fx send to the Side?
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Apr 23, 2009 01:06
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I use Waves M/S Encoder to encode, and the Waves S1 to decode, with the inputs set to M/S. This lets me further manipulate the final stereo image if I want to.
I'm not sure what you meant by the last line of your post but if you're asking what the processing chain looks like, it would go:
M/S enc -> FUCK SHIT UP -> M/S enc (or S1)
M/S encoding works best as an insert so no sends needed, although for sure you could use them if you like; if you decode back to L+R post-fader (ie. the last two insert slots in Cubase) and use the right kind of panner on the FX sends, you would be able to have separate send FX on the mid and side channels... reverb on the Mid and delay on the Side, for instance, or a heavy phase on the Mid and wide crunchy distortion on the Side, or or or or...!
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2009 01:25
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ah im with you now, fukin sorted!, im suprised no one else has mentioned about this. so much to learn, Collage maybe necessery.
Let me hear what results u get with the Haas somtime, il see what i can come up with.
nice one OOOD
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2009 11:27
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i love Ms decode that much i may even call myself it........ dont steal my idea thas my name ! hehe
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yveusss
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Posted : Apr 23, 2009 22:33
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 Thank you guys for asking this question and for answering it. I'll try to use it. |
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Saii
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 24, 2009 05:47
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wow finally a useful thread!
thanks guys
saii.rave.ca |
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Upavas
Upavas
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Posted : Apr 24, 2009 08:31
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : Apr 24, 2009 14:02
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Apr 24, 2009 14:08
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PoM
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Posted : Apr 24, 2009 14:39
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thanks colin some great ideas there
with equing the middle and side you can increase/decrease the stereo too
you can add fx to the middle or just the side (think for exemple a chorus,disortion or what ever on the middle of a reverb send)
i guess you can use a stereo imager only on the side for perfect mono compatibility
lot of things to try ,just experiments.
http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/ |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 24, 2009 17:02
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thanks JIzy for the question, heheh fukers
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 23, 2009 19:34
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Mid/Sides Enhancement
The last option is to exaggerate existing width by converting your stereo signal into M/S (middle / sides). Plug-ins that allow you to do this are now quite common (usually described as a 'spread' control), but you can achieve the same thing by creating a mono copy of your original audio, reversing the phase and mixing in to taste. With both your original stereo and reverse-phase copy set to 0dB all the mono content will be cancelled out, leaving you with only the stereo differences.
something elese i found
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
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Posted : Jun 2, 2009 19:08
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mid/side processing is just One of the Greatest techniques I have come across too. and it is ooooolldddd oooooollldd technique used a lot in the vintage studios especially for recording vocals with 2 mics. one in mono and the other with a reveresed phase.
But as everything in this wolrd It Is Not Perfect! One have to adjust it very carefully and especcially depending over what material you will want to apply it. Also dont forget to put some anti-phase detector (mayble like PAZ from waves) so that you can be aware of the Anti-Phaze that the M/S can produce. if you detect antifaze well, Waves S1 can help a lot! but if you just shorten the stereo image, the side processing will loose power, so we have to go back and fix this.
So, with the M/S can be achieved A LOT! but be carefull though... it generates horrible anti-phaze sometimes.
Long Live the MS ehehehehehe
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