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>>> Calling All Pro's
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divinasion
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
4
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 20:12:17
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What's up good people 
I've been frequenting isratrance for more than a year, but I've never felt the need to post until now. The amount of time I've invested in writing this post is a reflection of my desire for a Pro Bassline.
I've hit a wall and it's a major leech on my creativity. I'm having trouble creating a bassline that sounds great at 145-155bpm using notes from C0 up to C1. I have tried an endless amount of different synths suggested by the users of isratrance and also in Youtube videos. I am fully aware of how to tweak Amp & Filter envelopes and avoid sounds overlapping by shortening notes.
EVERY synth I have tried seems to be flawed in some way. For example with Sylenth, I can't get the bass to roll without small gaps inbetween the notes. Alien303 has the same issue, and no amout of hours spent tweaking envelopes and note lengths can correct this ... in addition, the Sub Bass in numerous synths sounds weak and/or muddy resulting in an unprofessional feel. I have read many accounts of people asking for help with their bassline on this forum, only to be provided with the same list of synths that don't produce a professional sound and then told that a solid bassline takes time and practice. I believe No amount of practice, EQ, analog modelling, compression ETC... can make up for the wrong synth. I'm probably in a minority in that I am unable to build anything without a solid foundation.
I want a smooth, continuous rolling bassline using a single Saw wave. I want to avoid splitting the track in two and using Bass enhancers. Glide functionality is a must!
I have put a lot of work in to getting the right bassline for my style and I feel so close!!
https://soundcloud.com/mind-the-gap-3/cronox-2-dodgy-bassline
Using Cronox 2 I have got closest to my desired sound. As you can hear, the problem I am experiencing with Cronox is that the oscillator does not retrigger properly when the bassline's pitch changes. I have tried to solve this by Sampling my bass notes. Unfortunately, sampling introduces gaps between the notes and ruins the smooth continuous flow of the bassline.
Here is a link to a screenshot of my Cronox 2 setup:
Unless someone can provide me with a solution to Cronox's retriggering issue, I suppose I'll need to use another synth.
If you have a suggestion or know of a way to create a smooth bass like the one above, please let me know!! Thanks for your time!
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 20:42
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One of the biggest things that helps me is knowing that the synth that I am using is capable of amazing basslines. Sylenth is used by many Pros, as well as Cronox. If you are unable to get a pro bassline to your standards out of either of those synths, it is not the synth's fault.
So yeah, I know you're not going to like this or find it particularly enlightening but you need more filter envelope and general tweaking practice if you want a pro bassline. Also, if you have a sub optimal monitoring environment you can run yourself ragged trying to figure things out - but what you're not realizing (maybe) is that your room and your monitors (or lack thereof) is tricking you and sending you down a rabbit hole with a dead end. If you can't hear what's wrong how can you fix it?
Most people take years to get the solid pro bass down even with the best equipment. I myself am 3 years in and I'm still not where I want to be in terms of bass territory but I'm getting better with each track.
Just do the best you can with each bassline that you make, but don't only focus on the bassline. If you are in the mindset that you need THE PERFECT bassline before you start anything else, you will only ever have a bassline and a bassline by itself is nothing.
What I would suggest is to keep doing what you're doing in terms of bass but don't overdo it for too long - work on another element. Don't spend hours tweaking the same thing - it's frustrating and unproductive. I try to not tweak bass and kick alone for more than a half hour though sometimes I fail.
Bass is a tricky mistress for sure, and while this may not be the most kind way to put things - the problem is your programming, not the synth. Both Sylenth/Cronox have been repeatedly used by world class artists to make amazing basslines
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 20:57
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Welcome to posting here!
I don't believe there is a right or wrong synth for a bassline man! And I also don't believe that there's a standard formula and synth that makes pro basslines out of the box without further processing. But (as you must of read before), getting it correct right from the source is mostly better.
Regarding the sound, you (almost) most certainly will need some compression and equalization, to get a nice balance between the kick and the bass. Not that it's a must, but it will give you more control over the generated sound. Your bass might be great but the kick is not, and they conflict. Now, you say no processing can make up for the wrong synth, but firsts, there ins't a wrong synth and second audio processing can do a hell lot to a sound: as long as the resulting wave sounds great, you can even record your sound in your car with a cheap microphone, while in the middle of a construction site. At's all about the result.
Regarding the timing, well, some VST envelopes can be a bitch to get the exact curve you want, but VSTi's respond to midi which aids in the filter envelopes (you could place a filter after the VSTi, but unless it allows it the filter envelopes wont even interact with the midi). Whenever I want absolute control over the timing, I get the sound right and than sample it (as you mentioned). Using the sampling I have full control over each sample, where it's playing and the clip volume automations -> I usually fund these result to be the tightest.
But try to hing of other tricks: you say you've got some settings in a certain VST that lacks a sub -> place a sine wave layer with 1 octave below, and you've got sub-bass (in addition to your saw wave)! Also, saw isn't the rule, try other settings: saw's and squares together can do wonders.
Resuming, it's not about what you have, but what you do with it. If there was a VSTi that was guarantied to make a killargh pro bass, than everyone would be making killergh pro basses and it wouldn't be killargh pro anymore 
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:04
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what make it hard is poor room acoustic, gettting a good kick bass in good environement is not much hassle... thats tragic man ! cause in a good studio in 30 minutes you may make the best kick bass you ever made while you re trying hard for weeks/months in your room. i find it s really not fair hehe |
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divinasion
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
4
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:30
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Thanks for your replies. I am aware that the right listening environment is essential to get the Kick+Bass sounding as Pro as possible. I am definitely not doing myself any favours by producting Psy on a set of Dell speakers with an external subwoofer 
@ Will: If you listen to the sample I have provided of my bassline with Cronox 2, you will notice a continuous resonance between each bass note. This is the style I am after.
I am unable to successfully reproduce this effect with any other synth, including Sylenth1.
I am going to state outright that I believe it is impossible to achieve this effect with Sylenth1, for the sake of an example. If I am wrong, please provide proof that a bassline in the style I am after is possible.
...And instructions on how it was achieved
...Even in another synth would be so helpful!!
If it is *impossible* to achieve this resonating effect between the notes, as I am claiming,
List some names of other synths that can successfully replicate the style of bassline I am after, or show me how to alter Cronox 2's settings to correct the note retriggering problem.
Really I could (and have) spend *all day* playing with filter envelope settings in Cronox 2 and pressing every button there is to try and correct the retriggering issue I am experiencing...
Thanks again |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:36
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about your retrigger issu, sometimes it s best to use the synth in polyphonic mode, cause if the previous note release overlap the new one on some synth it can fuck up slighty the attack when in mono /legato.. not sure it s your issue dont remember on cronox.. but try to switch to 2 voice to see if it cure the problem..
unless you wanna use glide it s best to use the synths in polyphonic mode for bassline usuallly to avoid this cause the way it "steal the note " is ofen not transparent |
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Geom3
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
479
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:39
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change the synth:-) then The processing after what u have achieved from the synth is what will define the overall character and counts for alot - gunna let out a lil sectret of mmine , Energy xt's synth is great for basslines!
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divinasion
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
4
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:46
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@ Geom3: The example provided already has aditional processing. I've slapped an EQ and an Analog ting on the bassline.
So what synth do you suggest I use...?
@ PoM: When I switch to Polyphonic mode, I lose some of the bass, it actually sounds like the two voices are phasing. Interestingly, the issue goes away when I switch to poly... but at an expense :/
Thanks again |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:49
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and did you try shorter release and adjusting midi note size? the answer to your problem could be to sample to audio and use fade but it should not be necessary on cronox 2 |
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:50
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timbre is pretty cool in your example. generally it sounds nice. retrigger doesnt work properly though. i never ended up using cronox or alien 303 for bass lines cause i dont like their sound and controls. i use massive, it is solid and has lots of great possibilities (and retrigger works ok).
good synth is a big part of success but
No amount of practice, EQ, analog modelling, compression ETC... can make up for the wrong synth
...well, not really. people did great things back in the day when there were no sylenth, massive, omnisphere, even cronox.
eq, sidechain, compression, saturation... everything helps to build up a great patch. of course it is necessary to understand that processing should be used to enhance a good preset, not fix it.
low end is nothing without everything else. it is the balance between all instruments that makes the pro feeling that you are trying to achieve. in fact, solo kick/bass may sound not as good in the end, as the full mix.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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Geom3
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
479
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:53
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doesnt sound that bad, i would say the kick could punch thru more tho, makes a whole lot of difference..
personally i choose ACE, alot more u can do to the envelope filters and amp and its retrigger iz rock solid
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divinasion
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
4
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:53
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Well PoM, you were totally right about the release of one note messing up the next one! I shortened the release some more and the problem goes away. I lose a lot of the effect I am after though.
At least I have a Pro sounding bassline. Gotta be thankful for something
@ Geom3: How does Ace sound? I saw it suggested but forgot about it. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 21:58
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the way to get the effect you are after, is to use higher cut off position if i get it, basically you want it to sound like one long note drive in the low/sub ? try to place the filter where the effect happen.. then use envelop on filter and short decay on it and fine tune everyhting , you may need to lower the filter.. |
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Geom3
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
479
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 22:05
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what does ace sound like?? sounds nice - set VCA to reset then turn the ol adsr and filter snap buttons on and way ya go...happy punchy basslines - handles different velocitys great too..
along with sonEq it sounds even better
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Mar 12, 2013 22:07
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to me it need eq , it sound too thin like this cause too much mids compared to the low/ or it mask the low , it could be better balanced i think but it s more about taste.. i think i would cut more the mids with some mediurm large Q then compensate with volume boost, it will sound way more phat cause of spreading the energy more in the low and highs giving a wider bandwitch but stuff to experiment..
same for kick it s not massive enough |
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