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C'mon open up a little....
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randy1
Started Topics :
2
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5
Posted : Sep 13, 2002 16:42
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O.K. I'm new to you guys but I feel strongly about this issue. I've been going to psy parties since I moved over to London (say 8 years ago now). But recently I've come across a whole lot of narrow minded bigots. Naturally I accept not everyone is homosexual, but that can't excuse some of the sxxx I've had to put up with. I'm referring to a few incidents, the worst being at the last Natural Order party. I was sharing a tender moment with a friend on the dancefloor and the next thing I know some guy steps between us and tells us to beat it. It's not a one off, coz similar stuff has happened to other friends too. What attracted me to psy trance was its openess and tolerance - everybody coming together to worship at the altar of true psychedelia. Everybody luving a party and each other. I remember great nights at the Fridge and Adrenalin village (where I met a long term partner). Maybe that's made me too much of an idealist, but why can't people just chill out man and let the luv juices flow. Am I just paranoid or does anyone here feel the same ?
  strange things happen at sea |
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morph27
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
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254
Posted : Sep 13, 2002 19:49
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what type of party is natural order? |
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randy1
Started Topics :
2
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5
Posted : Sep 13, 2002 20:59
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Guess I'd call it a psychedelic night with a redneck twist. That's the only one I've ever been to. Think there's one this saturday, though I for one won't be going. Why do you ask ? |
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morph27
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
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254
Posted : Sep 13, 2002 21:21
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just , i've never really seen anything like that at a proper psy-party - just think maybe its the crowd that go's to that night? just speculating
amateur psychology - dont u just love it! |
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randy1
Started Topics :
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Posted : Sep 13, 2002 21:33
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Do you mean rednecks or us ? If you mean rednecks, nor had I till recently. If you're talking about "shit stabbers" (as one of my friends was called at the last Astral Phoenix), then boy could I tell you some stories...you'd never look at the restrooms in the same light again..., but I won't, coz I dunno how sensitive you are !
strange things happen at sea |
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tom anteater
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1637
Posted : Sep 14, 2002 03:16
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gents, manners please!
morph was refering to rednecks randy!
and look, the behaviour you are refering to is a total anathema to the spirit of psy trance etc.. which is NON judgemental (surely... or did i miss read the instructions  )
now i personally have never heard nor seen the kind of attitude you experienced at natural order, in fact i rather like natural order, trying as it does to fuse the various underground dance elemants in london into one homogeneous whole... but if it happened then that is bad and we should be ashamed that such situations transpire at an event whose atmosphere we all help (at least in part) to create...
but randy, don't be so quick to judge the majority by the actions of the minority, and i hope you can continue to enjoy going out to psy parties in london... there is no promoter that would encourage the kind of prejudice you encountered, more than that they would be horrified!
further, we should observe that us londoners (and indeed uk denizens), are lucky in the fact that what our israeli cousins would call "arsim" (and randy, i have no doubt that you encountered a london ars) are in short supply in london town (at least at psy parties (or so i thought) ). but we all have an obligation to ensure the parties we attend are free from this sort of bigotry!
sermon is over.. please, and i'm not one for acronyms ( ) P.L.U.R
>>love will tear us apart...<< |
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brain inverter
Started Topics :
3
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8
Posted : Sep 15, 2002 03:25
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right on! |
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randy1
Started Topics :
2
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5
Posted : Sep 16, 2002 17:12
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O.K. Tom I appreciate what you say, but I can tell from your words you're probably someone who talks the talk more than walks the walk. It's understandable to a degree. My gaydar tells me you're not one of us (at least not openly so). Since you're in charge here, you don't want any problems, right ? So a few of the right words, then let's put this one to bed, yeah ? I'm not blaming you , but nothing ever changes in this world with your kind of attitude. It's difficult for you to empathise with our psyche. "The greatest tool in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed," argued the late South African black consciousness activist, Steve Biko. You can't imagine what it's like to feel persecuted full stop. But persecuted in a place you'd always imagined as a safe haven ? Just think about that.
When you've done that, you might want to think about some of the positive steps you could take to ensure we keep psy parties "free from this sort of bigotry."
strange things happen at sea |
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biggins
Started Topics :
4
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58
Posted : Sep 18, 2002 18:07
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I wrote this and posted it, then realised that it is what tom said essentially but i'm gonna post it anyway:
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Randy
Unfortunately it seems like you've already made up your mind about tom and the uk trance scene in general does this mean that whatever expressions of disappointment and sadness we make will fall on deaf ears???
i obvioulsy can't speak for all and sundry but as far as i am aware ALL of the people that i know well and go clubbing with are cool with whatever others want to do (within reason (by this i mean so long as it is not hurting others mentally and physically)). It seems that you are not willing to accept other peoples messages of... i don't know horror/sadness/disbelief at what happened to you and your friend on the dancefloor at natural order, why is that?? I personnaly feel sad that this happened because
a) it obviously (understandably!!) has pissed you off
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b) it shows a side of human nature that is not welcome in this day and age
but at the end of the day why use that minorities act to tarnish the whole london psy-trance scene and make sweeping statements about others who go clubbing. I could start making statements about how you, as an american (i think), want to start www3 or enslave/persecute all developing nations in financial slavery but i won't because i don't know you and would not want to make sweeping generalisations about your country.
Now obviously being 'straight' i/we cannot even comprehend how persecuted you've been, also we cannot do anyrthing about what has happened without defying the known laws of physics but i can reeiterate what has been said
i'm sorry about what has happened and i'm sad that you view the uk trance scene as being such a bigoted place. I hope you are proved wrong soon. Whilst these things happen due to narrow mindedness and stupid bigotry i think you are wrong. Maybe this puts me in the same category as tom (i.e. being an oppressor). Maybe the next party you go to will be a bit less tedious. Who can say? IMO we live in a world of s*** at the mo and the psy-trance scene is on the whole a good and open place and is one of the few good and +ve things going on. IMO.
oh btw, seeings as the uk psy-scene is so 'wrong', what do we need to do to make it all right again??
[ This Message was edited by: biggins on 2002-09-18 18:29 ] |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Sep 18, 2002 21:48
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Well, the trance scene is open minded and all - but the downside to an openminded (in average)crowd is that it accepts people that aren't. And that's when things start to go wrong. I'd be a lot happier if there'd be NO alcohol or MDMA at parties, since I think those are beside the point and cause things that are against the trance vibe to happen. But I don't get that wish fulfilled.
Anyways, I don't feel any sexual vibe in trance parties (well, usually). Be the music and the world stops to matter - it's as simple as that. There's a time and place for everything - on the dancefloor, I don't understand anyone that's not dancing. Other places, people can do whatever the f*ck they want, and if someone has a problem with that - it's only his, not anyone elses.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Luiz Paulo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1095
Posted : Sep 18, 2002 23:13
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It pretty much boils down to this: democracy is pretty easy when everyone is well educated and mannered...it gets harder when you have to put up with the stupid types just for sake of a greater ideal.
anyway, randy, remember: not everyone attends a psy event because of the ideals... we're all united by one thing and that is music (sometimes not even by that). expecting anything else than that is a waste of one's time imo.
and then what happened to you hasn't anything to do with psy spirits or vibes but rather to education.
i'm pretty sure that even here in the forum there are ppl who read your post and think to themselves "why didn't he attend a house party?".
sad as that may be.
the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.... |
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
375
Posts :
5032
Posted : Sep 19, 2002 00:32
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once ppl went to party and party for them was 99% music. everything else was just non relevant. only at this night and morning..
i clearly remember than arabs were coming to parties and we had fun sometimes together.. i was once at party where were more arabs than jews (in israel) and i pretty had fun (avi algernati aka space cat).. all kind of ppl were more than welcome to "live" and feel the spirit together.. its not plur but a love to music.. love to trance feeling, to be in trance..
thats just was different.. (BUT NOT BETTER).. [i afraid to say better coze its more right to make life easier]..
and dont get me wrong, thats not everybody was nice and all this.. just nobody gived a fuck about it.. i dont feel many ppl thoughts about ribe and such things, we just were tribe (with all good and bad into this termin)..
and ppl definately came to dance..point..
energie is a key word.. share it with the others..
amm.. what about im talking about ??
Believe your soul ! |
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Mozartrance
Started Topics :
1
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5
Posted : Sep 19, 2002 10:38
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The Vibes you throw are reflected on the reactions you get. |
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randy1
Started Topics :
2
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5
Posted : Sep 24, 2002 16:49
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First and foremost I must apologise, principally to Tom but also to the rest of you whom I clearly offended. I was out of line. I’m afraid you caught you me at a sensitive time : hell hath no fury like a lover spurned etc….I guess what people this side of the Atlantic refer as a lover’s tiff. He wasn’t right for me anyway, but I had no right to release my frustrations on you guys.
I overreacted, but I’m still convinced there is an issue that needs to be addressed here. Tom, I’m afraid I went for you coz I figured you might be in a position to do something, since you’re the site moderator or whatever, right ? In fact if you’re prepared to, I’m still very much hoping you might offer your services. Basically, a friend of mine is starting up a kind of underground Time Out mag for the London gay community. At the moment he’s working on a feature about attitudes within various alternative scenes and I alerted him to recent experiences at psy parties. Basically, he wants to talk to a few people heavily involved in the London scene. So we’d really appreciate it if you could spare some time over a drink or something. It wouldn’t take long and I guess this is the kind of thing I meant in reference to “walking the walk.” The same goes for anyone else with their finger on the pulse for that matter.
Once again, I apologise for flying off the handle. I went for the wrong people. The psy scene at large is extremely tolerant and welcoming towards us. (Why, even if none of you are overtly homosexual, I can still sense the homoerotic vibes when you guys get together on this page to wax lyrical about wonderful music – I mean it’s kind of a boys club, right ?) I guess I was just shocked by recent events. I hope you can forgive in the spirit of true tolerance.
strange things happen at sea |
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Nik
Error Corrective
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
142
Posted : Sep 24, 2002 17:14
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randy,
i am one of the djs at natural order - i assure you we aint rednecks!
all i can say is that we are all terribly sorry that your party that night was ruined by that homophobic idiot. (maybe he was jealous!)
we are good people - we love you all!!!
i'm going to e-mail you so maybe we can identify the perpitrator!
natural order 26th october - kuma's there, all homosexuals get in free of charge!!!!!!......
(aaaaa......bad joke)
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