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Building on my own a low cost acoustic treatment for a bedroom....???
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ess765
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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169
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 04:36
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So people,
I decided to transform a bedroom in my apartment into a acoustically isolated control room. I m not supposed to record live instruments, but maybe voice if ever needed. All I need is to try to reduce sound leaks and build absorption systems for walls, ceiling and floor. Esthetical issues are not that important, but I don t wanna make it look like a messy ugly place.
So I ve read a lot of things in the internet, here also and in some audio books. Articles where I saw from professional works real expansive to simple home studios. And as you might imagine, my goal is to transform a bedroom into a as perfect acoustically as possible for lower budget. I m really into doing things by myself.
But after reading so much information I m still not happy. Too much advices and theory. But I d like to discuss with people who s been through this process of doing this transformation using his own efforts. I d like to have an idea of the bigger challenges, results and main concerns following other people s experience.
So my basic questions are:
1 – can we build a low cost studio acoustic isolation system that work like it was professionally installed?
2- What s important regarding avoiding sound waves traveling all way around us? Can we use materials such a foam? There s someone selling at internet some wave shaped foams so cheaply. do you thing it could work?
3 What can be done behind the isolation panels to avoid leaks?
4 What should I do for walls, ceiling, and floor?
5 My room is rectangular. Its 4m long, 3m wide and 3m high.
6 What kind of math’s should I consider here?
7 And what about specific coefficients? Sabines tabs?
I d like to make panels so that if I decide to remove I don t bring much damage to walls.
I d like to cover all everything except floor with absorption panels. I d also like to use bass traps at corners. I won t break or install bricks.
Well any advice and personal examples are welcome. Pictures of your works done are also welcome.
Just to make a resume here: the goal of this topic is to discuss how to build a perfect control room for production, mixing and mastering by transforming a regular bedroom with window, wardrobe and door. And this task is 100% focused on a low budget.
I think this can be a nice topic to future people wanting to do the same.
Thanks
  Ess765 (aka Physical Absence)
Visit me at my project s page at:
www.myspace.com/physicalabsence
"when you think you know all the answers, life suddenly changes all the questions" |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 14:47
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There was a similar topic not long ago some of your answer lies there.
Quote:
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1 – can we build a low cost studio acoustic isolation system that work like it was professionally installed?
2- What s important regarding avoiding sound waves traveling all way around us? Can we use materials such a foam? There s someone selling at internet some wave shaped foams so cheaply. do you thing it could work?
3 What can be done behind the isolation panels to avoid leaks?
4 What should I do for walls, ceiling, and floor?
5 My room is rectangular. Its 4m long, 3m wide and 3m high.
6 What kind of math’s should I consider here?
7 And what about specific coefficients? Sabines tabs?
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wow, thats a lot of good questions. I will post some help on the subject later.
Meantime there is a video I advice you to get. its name is secret of the pros, its well done and will really help answer your question.
Pm me I can help you get it. 
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 16:15
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1 Yes
2- Foam is usually just for diffusion for more broadband acoustic absorption you need to use thicker materials like rockwool or fiberglass such as Owens corning 703/705. IMO you should avoid some of these online places selling acoustic foam as most of it is useless. If they provide acoustic data on the absorption coefficients of the material then its good.
3 You can stuff them with acoustic wool.
4 Ideally you should have 2 inch panels on the first reflection points and 4 to 6 inch panels on the corners of the room all the way up to the ceiling. Finally you should have some clouds hanging above your mixing position.
As far the material is concerned at minimum it should have a density of 50 Kg/m3, a bit higher would be even better..
I'd suggest the first thing you should do is find a local supplier for Fiberglass or Rockwool & then build your own panels..
I'm doing the same thing & it is quite cheap to buy your own panels and build frames or fabric covers for them..
Read this for more in-depth info:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
Another good source:
http://forum.studiotips.com/
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 17:30
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ess765, I have a question for you too:
what is the material and the width of your room's walls ?
If it's something lighweight, don't expect too much silence - it's energy matter, if the walls have not enough mass, the most energetic (hi-freq) waves will escape these walls.
This is why making completely silent place is best done in an underground room, with concrete or soil around it.
with thin walls you will reduce the external noises, and the general noise level, but I don't know if it's possible to do a clean isolation with thin plaster walls.
I've heard of guys building the rooms for being silent room especially heavy - they use the bricks, and fill the air gaps with sand, to add mass to the wall.
I assume this also has some constructional complications about how the structure is built etc.
Regards!
Regards!
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ess765
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
169
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 20:13
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Quote:
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what is the material and the width of your room's walls ?
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bilbobagginz,
here in my country walls are not made of plaster as places like usa, for instance. We use brick, which by itself should have some considerable isolation capability. But my idea is to build wood framed painels that help to isolate more. Those painels would be right after the wall. And after those panels I d install he anti reverberation panels....is it correct?
Ess765 (aka Physical Absence)
Visit me at my project s page at:
www.myspace.com/physicalabsence
"when you think you know all the answers, life suddenly changes all the questions" |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 20:22
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Do u need isolation + acoustic treatment??? If so, I think u will need a lot of money to get it working 100%. And u will have a great lost of space, doing double walls and things like that!
Other thing, is that your room is almost a cube, the worst case for a studio. So, do not try to get pro results.
For low budget, I would suggest u trying to make "bass traps" like on Ethan Winer site. Very easy to do, and not expensive at all. U will find also that small studios has big problems about low frequencies(so it´s much more important working with bass traps, that with the foam, that works mainly at mid/high freq).
MATHS? Humm... Maybe it´s good too make a calculation of the reverb time of your room. But I will say that I made for my room, and in fact I could not make so many improvements looking at the results. Cause I would use mainly the home made bass trap, so there´re no much options to make the room as u want.
One thing that can help much more imho, is to record some waves with a mic. Get a test tone cd, or make your own using sine waves from 20 HZ to 400 Hz for example. Then place the mic at listening position, and record all the waves. Looking at the recorded wav, u can define wich frequencies are missing, and wich ones are boosted. With this numbers, u can have more options on "freq target".
Pay attention for "panel bass trap vs super chucky bass traps" also. If u have space, can be nice to think about super chunky type.
LOADING... |
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ess765
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
169
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 20:42
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Sms,
as I said my walls are made of brick, so I believe its has some natural reasonable isolation. Now I want to go a little further.
Concerning reverberation: I d like to buy pro bass traps which I ve quoted. I should spend ilke U$500 with bass traps, and now I want to know which absorption panels shouold I get? Should I buy it ready to go or should I do it myself?
When I say low budget I mean compared to professional places with even esthetical concerns. in my situation I d say I d spend beween U$1000 to U$2000. With this amount I d buy the bass traps professionally made, and then mount bymyself some panels to cover all wals and ceiling. The floor maybe I should use carpet...
But those panels, should be conected to the wall with a first layer concerning to enhance the brick isolation capability. And the second layer should be more focused on reberberation issues.
BTW, my main goal is to have a decent treatment against reverberation. Cause it s a mixing/mastering control room, not a recording cabinet.
Another question about reberberation:
when we say we want a flat room with no reverberation, would the best scene be that all frequencies were "killed" when they first reach he absorption panels or are reflections still allowed??
Another info: I ve read information that 15mm brick wall has attenuation of 47db. I ll look after information to find out which kind of brick is my bedroom made with...
Thanks
Ess765 (aka Physical Absence)
Visit me at my project s page at:
www.myspace.com/physicalabsence
"when you think you know all the answers, life suddenly changes all the questions" |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 21:20
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HUmm... I think that my best advice is: Try it!!!
Buy/construct the bass traps/panels, and place them as u want and listen the result.
Just be carefull about those panels. It´s comon to see studios packed of foams/panels. And that´s not the goal. Too much foam can lead to a dead room(zero reverb) wich is not so good(3 ms of reverb time is ok for studios).
Try to get 1 bass traps, and 2 panels(one for low/mid and other for mid/high). So u can work at differents frqeuency targets.
And I really advice Ethan Winer´s site, and his forum at Music PLayers Forum( http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/24/page/1 ). U can find answer to all of your questions there for sure!
LOADING... |
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ess765
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
169
Posted : Jun 9, 2007 23:29
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Guys,
as I said I ve been reading almost everything available in the internet.
My goal here is to listen to people s personal experience. I d like to hear from people who did it by theirselves...please let me know what did you learn during the rpocess..how did you build things..etc...
Ess765 (aka Physical Absence)
Visit me at my project s page at:
www.myspace.com/physicalabsence
"when you think you know all the answers, life suddenly changes all the questions" |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Jun 10, 2007 14:31
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This is some advice I posted not too long agoQuote:
| 1. A symmetric room ( very important) even the placement of hardware can have influences on the sound. If you have a bed somewhere try to put something symetrically that will absorb as much as him.
2.A bass trap is often required
3. Absorbers at the back of the speakers pretty thick too to absorb mainly mid frequency. you have a big room so the high are potentially not as much of a problem as the low or even mid.
4.It s good thing to use the mirror technik to see the primary reflection from the speaker to the wall to the listening position, and try to apply on the side walls something like diffusors or absorbers (nothing fancy very easy to do, pm me for more info on that)
5. for a better bass definition and clarity use a subwoofer or even 2. one at speaker location the other to the sidewall( for a home studio one is enough. (remember from 80 to 30 or 40hz the bm6 don't do it as well as a sub.
this is a bed studio so I'm not gonna talk about non parallel walls and ceiling. |
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To answer your question. (1 to 7)
1. Yes you can build a low cost studio that sound as good as a professional studio, but you need to know what you're doing. And you need to be in an environment that allows it.
2. Answer is in the quote on top. A conbination of foam at the right place and diffusors will allow you to have a room with the least change in frequency boost and cut. ( for more detail pm me, its not always about reading.
3. well here it is. this is where your rooms structure is important. If you have thin walls or plaster, its gonna cost you to make it sound proof. vaccum is not a solution is way to expensive you need expertise, sound proofing vinyl can be used. its not cheap but its easy to install. You have different level of thickness, the thicker the more isolated. Usally it is used with a combination of foam.
If you have proper wall and you need more isolation vinyl on its own is sufficient you just stick it to the wall. otherwise the best is to build wall out of plasterboard and fill it with foam and add a layer of vinyl.
I did not use vinyl in my case I just used rockwool for the wall and that was enought cause I'm already pretty isolated.
4. Non parallel walls is a must if you want a descent acoustic. So you can use panels or build those plaster wall symetrically but not in parallel.
5. look at 4
6 well, there are many things you need to consider and calculate so you need to be specific about what you want to know. Since you red a lot on the subject you should know what you want.
Aia !!! I got to stop it here for now I' ll continue later, My girlfriend is not too happy, she wants to go out, its a beautiful day....
cheers
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Jun 10, 2007 14:36
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i think you need lot of basstraps, one for each corners and some on the side wall of the monitors and maybe even more.6 basstraps and it s maybe not enought |
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Eleusene
Started Topics :
4
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117
Posted : Jun 10, 2007 17:16
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ess765
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
169
Posted : Jun 10, 2007 20:53
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thanks guys...let s keep adding info here..
About bass traps: I think I ll go for these:
http://loja.vibrasom.ind.br/produto_detalhe.php?IdItem=57
So maybe I d only build the wall and roof panels. As I said before I d like to cover 100% of hose areas and not install a few panels in strategic places.
I ve read about the rockwool as good solution.
Should I build panels wood framed with rockwool inside and then install absorption acoustic foam (wave shaped) at its surface? Or does the rockwool panel itself will work on absorption?
Ess765 (aka Physical Absence)
Visit me at my project s page at:
www.myspace.com/physicalabsence
"when you think you know all the answers, life suddenly changes all the questions" |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Jun 11, 2007 11:39
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I just treated my studio (the shed) of about the same dimensions as your room with high density rockwool and built two superchunk rockwool basstraps. Everything is covered with cotton fabric against airborne particles and looks pretty decent. In my experience the room sounds almost perfect. I'm considering building two extra basstraps, but for the rest i'm happy. If there's anything practical i can help you with, let me know...
Considering your situation i would build several high density rockwool panels in wooden frames covered with fabric and hang those on the walls and the ceiling. Those are moveable and don't damage the wall much. Also consider building superchunks in triangular wooden frames so you can take them with you when you move. |
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ess765
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
169
Posted : Jun 11, 2007 17:10
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Boobytrip,
that s the basic plan..to go for rockwool...have you ever measured the results? Did you install atacedt the wall or did you leave space between the wall and the panels? Do you have the material s specifications such as density and thickness?
I was wondering about buying the bass traps...did take a look at the link I posted in the previous message?
Ess765 (aka Physical Absence)
Visit me at my project s page at:
www.myspace.com/physicalabsence
"when you think you know all the answers, life suddenly changes all the questions" |
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