thegooddale
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Posted : Jul 1, 2009 20:28
I've always had more fun dancing and observing dj's play, as opposed to live acts. Still haven't really seen a live electronic act other than Guy Mcaffer, aka The Geezer that was super impressive...
hardkornate
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Posted : Jul 1, 2009 20:33
Quote:
On 2009-07-01 17:21, disco hooligans wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-07-01 16:52, hardkornate wrote:
In all honestly, I've never seen more pretentious self centered sub-genre specific egoism than I have with the psy scene. For a group of people that claims to be open minded, you sure like to tell other people how to make, present, and enjoy music.
I agree with this argument, but then again...
Quote:
On 2009-07-01 16:52, hardkornate wrote:
Also - whoever was complaining about having to "sit through" Rinkadink is a chode. That is all.
You go and do the same thing your self. Its not a bad thing though because you see, people like certain things, I am not complaining about who should play what, I simply choose to attend, or not. When I attended the MWNN gig I knew what I had to sit through before hand.
Just because some people know what they like, it don't make them what you present them to be. This thread is about having too many live acts on the same night, and how it would be good to bring back the DJs that have 4+ hours to develop a set.
Some people like a lot of things, more power to them. I used to like a lot of things too, but as I grew older I just focused on the things I really like.
I'll tell you what really is a bunch of non-sense, that one should like and accept anything that gets played, otherwise s/he is a party pooper.
Its just a party and that is a good thing? pyjama parties can only be a good thing....being high on acid and having some twat jump around on stage, playing music that sounds like down syndrome in waveforms, should appeal to everyone, cause after all its just a party right? whatever...
I forgot that europe is a totally different world. The things you complain about are not a problem in the US, at least not anywhere I've been. The only show I can think of with a line up like you describe is ORB festival and the only downside I can see with that expensive of a line up is that you risk creating some seriously jaded people. You're definitely doing to sleep through some SRS acts that would be the sole headliner at a midwest show. In short, what you are complaining about is a problem other parts of the world would love to have. Our reality is completly different. We can't throw a show that would ever appeal to your narrow tastes as that would reduce the atendence to the low hundreds. It takes a well rounded line up to get 400 people out to a well run fest and if you need 1000 people to cover the bills, you need to incorporate other forms of EDM in large quantities.
I'll take the chode comment back, and replace the word chode with "spoiled" or "jaded" as thats more accurate. Also, I'll concede that as a producer you WILL be more specific in your tastes but you might want to also consider that for the average fan of the music, they have a much more diverse taste and often do not even know the names of the subgenres. They show up at the show because they trust the promoter or maybe they know one of the local DJ's and are taking his word that the headliner is the shit. As long as the music is good and the artist has his heart in it, I support it. Sure I think different times are better suited to different music, but anything can work at any time, if you present it properly.
I guess the real difference here is that here, we promote underground music and we value each and every event as a special occurence. Where you are at, it's a sub set of popular culture wheretheres a large enough fan base to have a surplus of choices.
Spacecamppsyfari.com
CosmoNaughty
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 16:00
I would much rather see a really good dj mixing and blending a whole world of music than an average live act doing an hour or so of tunes that just sound a bit too similar (same synth noises etc)
Stregone
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Posted : Jul 2, 2009 16:09
Quote:
On 2009-07-01 16:52, hardkornate wrote:
I think the whole "omg the flow got disturbed" discussion is really quite trite and generally a bunch of nonsense perpetrated by idealists who have a vision in their head of how they think it should happen that doesn't actually coincide with the reality of human nature.
Over the last 16 years I've seen a lot of shit go down and I have been watching how people behave at parties. Those of you who act like you dance all night or even give your full attention to more than a few sets are either the exception to the rule or completely full of shit. Most people cannot stay focused for more than a short while. 90 min movies confirm this. People interrupting me to talk on the dance floor every few minutes confirms this. All those people smoking outside confirm this. Those pussies sitting by the campfire confirm this. The people back at their tent confirm this. DJ's repeating a track later in the night confirm this. Having someone rock out to my whole set in one town, then rock out to the same exact set in the next and only recognize a few tracks confirms this. People asking you when you play when you just got off confirms this. All the out of shape people that can only dance for five minutes at a time confirm this.
You're complaining about the music changing every hour or two when really you should be more concerned about holding peoples attention five(maybe 3?) minutes at a time.
You're complaining that "oh noes, they are playing music other than what I produce" - get a grip. Only producers and DJ's have such limited taste in music. Most people like variety. That dark artist that you think is clearing the dancefloor is doing you a favor by making sure you sound fresh and new. That prog guy that's boring you to tears? He's just holding back so you can tear it up. The guy playing the cheesy full on? You owe him big cuz he's the only reason theres still girls dancing. (was going to add a morning complaint in, but noone ever whines about the morning acts)
In all honestly, I've never seen more pretentious self centered sub-genre specific egoism than I have with the psy scene. For a group of people that claims to be open minded, you sure like to tell other people how to make, present, and enjoy music. Here's some news for you - people are different. They like different things. Most of them like LOTS of things and in fact like it more if it ends before they get bored of it. So what if you were only perfectly pleased with 30% of the music. Thats generally a problem with YOUR expectations and not with the music itself. So what if you went to the perfect party(for you) and now it's different. Get over yourself and learn how to have a good time wherever you are and I think you'll find that IT'S JUST A PARTY AND THATS A GOOD THING.
Also - whoever was complaining about having to "sit through" Rinkadink is a chode. That is all.
I must assume you don't know the swiss scene at all
Basically I'm with you, but is not like that everywhere...
I'm not sold on DJ's. Don't give a shit about beatmatching.
A DJ is ultimately just a glorified fan.
Even a producer who does "playback" live sets CREATED SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE.
I'd much rather pay my money to see that guy get on stage and show me the music that's in their head than listen to some FAN play back music that somebody else made and they happen to like.
And if a producer can do a "real" live act, all the better.
Shiranui
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Posted : Jul 6, 2009 20:55
Quote:
On 2009-07-06 19:12, OpenSourceCode wrote:
A DJ is ultimately just a glorified fan.
This is why I prefer DJs to live acts.
When there are only DJs, the event feels more like a gathering of equals, rather than some kind of performance where one person is held above the others.
When there are only DJs, the event feels more like a gathering of equals, rather than some kind of performance where one person is held above the others.
point....but I make music
I'd rather see and meet the guy or girl who made that shit. I'm interested in people who make such wild music up pretty much out of thin air. And they're usually really nice kids!
Quantum Frog / Anomalistic
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Jul 7, 2009 09:42
Quote:
On 2009-07-06 20:55, Shiranui wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-07-06 19:12, OpenSourceCode wrote:
A DJ is ultimately just a glorified fan.
This is why I prefer DJs to live acts.
When there are only DJs, the event feels more like a gathering of equals, rather than some kind of performance where one person is held above the others.
The live act stands in the same spot the DJ would, lol.
Even a producer who does "playback" live sets CREATED SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE.
disagree
the "ready" set was exist before the artist got on stage , while the dj set wasnt. mixing is an art nothing less. sometime producers today sounds like they work less hard then any ok dj.. using loops and ready sequences etc
i still prefer real live acts of good artists then anything , probably used to the live shows in rock etc. nothing gets that high energy (personly never got it from dj for sure)
www.sattelbattle.com http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
On 2009-06-27 15:00, demoniac wrote:
i have an idea to make a live set + dj set
i dont like to make them split like 1 hour live + one hour dj set, but i like to make a mix between this 2.
for examplse i will perform live some of my own tunes, then play a track from some other artist, then another live track, and 2-3 other artist track etc...
i see this way more fun for me and for the audience what do u guys think about this kind of playing ?
i thought of it but i stuck on fitting my unmastered bounced down by parts audio tracks and midi parts with mastered wavs.
I have a basic mastering chain in the master output. Nothing too fancy, just to keep a constant, relatively loud level and to stop any overs that might occour if I am getting a bit silly with the synths/drums.
The main problem when doing this would be mixing the live arrangement in with the CD...you'd have to go the old outro/intro thing were no rythmic parts are present.
with the "nudge" feature that Ableton introduced in Live 7, this isn't really a problem anymore, you can really beatmatch any Live set into any other source, i bounce back and forth between ableton and other sources (cds, vinyl, other computers, etc.)
I definitely agree with the idea behind this topic, particularly given that so many "live" acts are really just pressing play on a pre-arranged set... But I don't know that bringing back the super long dj sets is the only answer. I think raising the bar for the "live" acts is just as important - and, while we are at it, raising the bar for what DJs do as well. As Axis Mundi and some others have pointed out, the tools exists these days to really do some amazing and innovative stuff, both in a DJ set, and in a true live set - and I'm a big fan of the hybrid set idea too.
I totally understand and respect the "2 decks and mixer is all I need" approach to DJing, but I'd really like to some more of the really advanced live remixing, layering, effects processing, etc. type of laptop based performance in the psytrance scene that I see in some of the other EDM scenes. Granted, psytrance does not naturally incline itself to that type of thing the way that glitch-hop, dubstep, or minimal do - mainly because (good, imo) psy tunes have a much more complex internal narrative structure, and you can't just randomly chop pieces of different tunes out into loops and mash them together... but i don't think this means that we shouldn't explore this new approach to DJing, it just means that it's more of a challenge, and we have to be more elegant and subtle in our application of these techniques.
My DJing career started as a turntablist in a jazz/funk/hip-hop group, so I guess i've always had a very active and performance oriented approach to DJing. When I fell in love with goa/psytrance it always frustrated me that most psy DJ sets (including my own, back in the CD/Vinyl days) were pretty much "cue up next track, beatmatch, mix, stand around/dance for 4 minutes, cue up next track, beatmatch, mix, stand around/dance for 4 minutes, etc." I've always understood that turntablist style techniques *don't* fit with psytrance, but I always wanted something that could give the DJ more of an active, performing role... then I found ableton
Since then, I've been working constantly on building psytrance DJ sets using Ableton + midi controllers + outboard synths/fx, that are as dynamic, improvisational and performance oriented as a good turntablist show, but still keep the psy vibe... and it's been pretty freakin hard. but i'm starting to think i'm making some progress, and I really wish there were some other DJs/producers out there to exchange ideas with - or at least watch and be inspired by.
sorry about the excessively long post, not trying to hijack this into a laptop vs. cdjs debate...
On 2009-06-29 12:24, ocelot wrote:
you mentioned digital talk as being rather hard or crazy and i have to wonder.... they are considered pretty middle of the road last time i checked (soulclipse turkey 2006)
not very extreme anyway.
a bit harder than dickster to be sure but not above 146 or so and rather minimal if i remember right.. what year was that party?
2009. It was not minimal at all, there were walls of silly glitch, noise and circus leads, odd breaks...etc. Some people like that stuff and that's fair enough, it just puts me off big time. 146 is pretty fast for me as well, but its not just tempo that makes "extreme" as you said, music.
A bit OT, but that doesn't sound like Digital Talk at all. I've seen them live many times and their music is just like Ocelot said, kinda minimal fullon with dark atmospheres. Definitely middle of the road these days and no glitchy stuff.
the "ready" set was exist before the artist got on stage ,
not what i said. the producer invents music in his studio that DID NOT EXIST BEFORE. NOT EVER.
The best a DJ can ever do is to mix a song that somebody else wrote with another song (or even 2!) that YET ANOTHER person wrote. And there is a certain creativity to picking a bunch of 7 minute tunes that can mix together, I'll grant you. But liveacts have to do that too.
And that kind of work is nothing, repeat NOTHING like the level of creativity required to actually create a worthwhile psy song from start to finish. A producer has to go thru:
Conception/Inspiration
Tracking/Writing
Mixing/Tweaking
and (if you're playing unreleased material, like I am) Self-Mastering
of each and every song before he even gets to the Liveact planning. Unless you're gonna do live mastering, like the Naiads and the Hoolingans, which adds a whole new layer of complexity.
Even if you're just combining a bunch of pre-made loops together, that's a hell of a lot more involved than lining up 8 or 9 finished, mastered tracks.
And furthermore, I know quite a few DJ's who PRE-PLAN every set and refuse to deviate from the plan. How is that really any less lazy than lining them up in ableton beforehand?
So, yeah.
If I'm gonna put in this much work, why shouldn't I expect the same of everybody?
Loopfreaks/Electrofreaks
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Posted : Jul 8, 2009 09:43
I always preferred a party with good Dj's who understand to communicate with the floor. Dj's who does not think a psytrance party is a party where you all need your hands in the Air pause breaks every 4 minute. A party where there's less Dj's who play longer sets and by that take people on a Journey. This will rarely, if never, happen with live acts that can't change their set to fit the mood on the floor.
IMO Live acts belong at Festivals or real concerts.
So yes bring back the Dj's. But the right ones who really know what it's all about. And kick out the many Dj's who think it's a popularity contest and to get as many "Hail you God" responses from the crowd.
