| Author
|
Brickwall filter and hi end Cut problem
|
PsyysP
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
14
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 02:23
|
I opened many well Mastered tracks from famous bands in Adobe audition and through frequency analysis find out there is a frequency that overall signal start to attenuat .
It is between 16khz and 20 khz and mostly in 80% of track its 16khz that the track goes below -105dB .
The filter curve is so fast I think they use a kind of brickwall filter or maybe just an EQ ,
why these hi frequency harmonics is cut from the Mix ?Does it affect the room for other sounds ?
and if anyone can suggest me a good brickwall filter Im glad to hear that please dont say use :TrackPlug5 from wavearts cause its so CPU hungry . in 24 bit 96khz it uses 15% of my CPU!!!
  When You Dream There Are No Rules . |
|
|
|
AvS
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
464
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 12:10
|
Sounds like you are opening mp3 files. A steep 16khz highcut is an typical mp3 mark. Look a the wav files instead. Lots of things is going on above 16khz.
|
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 12:22
|
as avs said, you are opening mp3 files 
not the best option if you are trying yo analyze things....
otherwise, personally i roll off very subtley around 20khz on many sounds, especially fm type synth fx or bit crushed sounds, as those can contain nasty aliasing high freq stuff.
but there is no need to choke your sound, and nice open highs can give a lot of air to your mix.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
PsyysP
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
14
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 13:23
|
Thats right guys ,I didnt think about MP3 compression ,and the hi cut freq depends on the Bit rate of the file also .thx for ur helpfull info .
My first problem is solved ,but I still need a good brickwall filter for low end cut .Any free or commercial plugins ?
When You Dream There Are No Rules . |
|
|
|
dtd
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
490
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 14:44
|
hi PsyysP
why do you need a _brickwall_ filter? it is not necessary to use brickwall filters in audio applications, because a very steep magnitude response at the cutoff causes undesired ripple in the audible range. as an example i linked you an image of a magnitude response which shows some ripple which might be undesirable (first big figure "Figure No.1"):
http://www.mathworks.com/access/helpdesk_r13/help/toolbox/signal/filter10.html
so i think it's best to use established filter plugins (low cut of any EQ plugin) designed for audio applications which minimize such ripple and possible phase shifts.
cheers!
$ exp(j*pi) + 1 = 0. $ |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 15:04
|
|
dtd
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
490
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 15:45
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-06-24 15:04, faxinadu wrote:
i think in general the more scientific a tool is the less musical it tends to be as dtd implied.
|
|
i know what you mean. there's alot of technical/scientific uses of filters which aren't musical in any way. you're right with your implication from scientific use => musical use!. but i would like to add that musical filter development is HIGHLY scientific.
$ exp(j*pi) + 1 = 0. $ |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 16:03
|
agreed
what i was trying to say is that like you mentioned, very tight brickwall filters and such tend to sound unatural. sometimes this might be what is intended and those tools have thier uses in music too, but in most cases more relaxed and musical tools are a better approach.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 16:18
|
grm tools ?
and i think colin once posted a method where u could use the waves paragraphic eqs .. put all bands on the same freq ..and it becomes a brickwall .. but my knowledge is fairly patchy about all this .. perhaps he or someone else could explain .. im curious too .
|
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 16:28
|
well that method is basically just multiplying the slope by doubeling the filter. its like if you pass your sound into a 12db filter and then into another 12db filter its the same as passing it through a 24db filter.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 18:49
|
|
PsyysP
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
14
Posted : Jun 24, 2007 20:29
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-06-24 14:44, dtd wrote:
so i think it's best to use established filter plugins (low cut of any EQ plugin) designed for audio applications which minimize such ripple and possible phase shifts.
|
|
Thats true,,its not a good idea to use brickwall filtering for every sound ,Common low pass and high pass filters do the job well,but sometimes the artifacts creat by a brickwall filter sound so nice to me .although these filters like the one Trackplug5 has mainly designed for audio applications .
so surely it might have a usage in music production .
http://www.wavearts.com/TrackPlug5.html When You Dream There Are No Rules . |
|
|
|
earshoes
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
3
Posted : Jun 25, 2007 11:29
|
|
vintagewarmer 2 by psp audioware has a brickwall. it is said to be a good plug |
|
|
|
PsyysP
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
14
Posted : Jun 25, 2007 13:48
|
|
texmex
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
189
Posted : Jun 26, 2007 10:45
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-06-25 13:48, PsyysP wrote:
Anyone knows whats the difference between Brickwall limiting and regular limitimg ?
|
|
I'd say brickwall limiting is as it says: the signal cannot exceed the given limit. (http://www.tcelectronic.com/Default.asp?Id=3322)
Regular limiting means that the signal is being greatly attenuated, but not guaranteed to be within any given range. For example, if your limiter has ratio of 10:1, driving a signal with 100dB over the threshold will still result in a signal 10dB over the threshold - which could be greater than 0dBfs and possibly causing digital clipping in your daw. |
|
|
|
