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Best Audio Field Recorder ever?
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 15, 2012 12:59:44
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Looking for a very good audio field recorder.
I guess a very good one starts with 1000 Euro but I'm not really sure and than this kind of audio field recorders are most probably too big for my ideas . Zoom and the small ones lacks of quality to a certain degree of own expirience I know that.
It should be transportable in the jacket.. best would be if it can working when hidden , it should have a good frequency spectrum response of course. Some sort of condenser mics should be necesseary.
Any good recommendations? Any personal expirience with a nice brand?
  https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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☼ DigiTrip ☼
Started Topics :
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Posted : May 15, 2012 22:23
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the most important things in buying mics is:
1) self noise level
2) sensitivity
so if you want record outdoor/indoor, the best option would be buying normal studio condenser mics, preamplifier and stands. The best and the cheapest semipro microphones (for now) on the market are AudioTechnica AT2035 and StudioProjects B1 - these two are very similar in terms of parameters and sound quality. The large diameter of capsule lets you record with high detail and clarity. As for handheld recorders with builtin mics you'll have to strugle with high noise level and less detailed transients (you can check this on freesound.org - lots of sounds recorded by handhelds there).
Of course everything is a mater of quality/size/price. So if you want high detailed recordings go with studio type microphones - it costs a bit more but its highly cinfigurable, so you can change the microphones anytime and use it to make professional studio recordings. And if the size is most important for you then go with handheld, but forget about lot of nuances, clarity and detail, and of course limited configurability. Closed systems like handhelds are more expensive if you want to change the type of capsules (for example).
I've got 2x StudioProjects B1 mics, E-MU tracker Pre interface (USB powered), Proel stands and cables and gave for all of it about 450euros. I must say that im very happy with it and I never heard any electronic noise even in low level recordings  Of course all of this is heavy and big, but i found a very portable laptop bag and pack everything in it. As for stands there are lots of cheap bags on the market so its not a problem. Everyone has two hands to carry two bags so the size doesnt much matter 
and as for e-mu Tracker Pre interface dont listen to any rumors that it has bad sound quality or any other stupid claims. The parameter tests and benchmarks outperforms any other USB interfaces in the price/quality category. It'll give you plenty of headroom for clean and transient heavy recordings. + the tracker pre has insert slots for external analog signal processing and -most important- it works without computer if you buy additional 5V power supply, so you can use it as a fully functional mic preamplifier.
Peace!  |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
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1477
Posted : May 15, 2012 22:26
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i guess you have to re-think what you want.
high quality means imo that you need a separate recorder, mic(s), mic hold and quality monitoring headphones . these you cannot fit into your pockets or go spying around with...
"no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 16, 2012 01:49
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Thank you a lot for your detailed input DigiTrip. What a nice read I will look for your suggestions and put it to my consideration of what to buy. Much appriciated!
I'm looking for a most high quality, I know the most high quality is only possible with good converters and mics with stands, good mics . Shoeps should be the best I guess, but that is indeed too much for my budget as for now. T
Outolintu - I know exactly what I can and want. I want top quality , i need tools for proffesional work. And I need both - but a mobile recorder more than one with additional mics.. The best occasions for really good recordings are sponanous and not predictable.
I know what you mean of course.. it's not possible to have both in one .. my first post wasn't well expressed, I agree ... but it is a fact, that the mobile recorders are developing in terms of quality like no other device in the whole audio world.There is a ongoing development. I just don't have a clue what's really good especially since there are that many brands, like marantz,sony, edirol,tascam and so much more .. the device DigiTrip mentioned are total new to me for instance.. Thank you guys
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Kryten
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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333
Posted : May 16, 2012 09:46
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A while ago I bought myself the Yamaha Pocketrak C24 (around 100€). Its small, has stereo mics and a line/mic socket for better mics or other external stuff, its has an own usb port, a built in tuner, headphone port and probably some other stuff I haven't found yet. Its great for spontanous recording because I always have it with me...yesterday I recorded my korg monotron delay with it and I was suprised how good the quality was....
Not sure though if it suits you for professional use
My first track:
http://soundcloud.com/kryten/ |
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
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454
Posted : May 17, 2012 10:33
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Field recorders are many things. First figure out if you will be doing a lot of close miking or if you prefer to record at a distance. Second figure out what characteristic you would like your mike to have. Forget about converter quality and focus on the abilities of the mic. I own a zoom thing. Plastic piece of crap but it´s actually better than good once i figured out it´s weaknesses. The stereo mics on these little bastards have a thing about picking up everything around them so i mostly use it for indoors stuff. IF you want to go outside and you want pro then prepare to carry more than a handy little device! For field recordings i would say only a shotgun mic in a blimp would be as "pro" as u describe. Converter quality comes in second as most modern converters sound good when used right (very important for mics since they are low gain devices, but less than you describe) I dont think i ever saw ben burrt running around with a compact handheld, neither anyone else known for their field recording chops. A cheap solid state recorder and a high end shotgun mic is my best suggestion. Anything compact falls in the semi pro category at best.
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 17, 2012 11:41
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if the charectericstic of the capsule is a shotgun or cardioid,hyper or supercardiod or an omni,boundary layer or bidirectional has nothing to do if a mic is more 'pro'.. its indeed more about the converters,signal to noise ratio and the prefabricated parts, the thd % and such things I'd say. The charecteristic ..its good to know in mind that for example a hypercardioid has its off axis at 110° & 250° but a cardioid has its off-axis at 180° .. and a few more technical details like that - important for indeed what bright audio fields you want to record.
If you want a specific sound amongst lots of others take a shotgun it can be surely a nice way.
If you want outside recordings and take a lot of this climate 'the room' on it , it is probably not the best choice..
Shotgun is a nice tool, something I also don't have so far. I would use it as a close mic a supportive one or for high hats sweet spot maybe. For outside interviews maybe.. As for my purpose now I'm more interested in a cardioid and a mobile good recorder --also a good one for stand up mics but as well for outside..Or two for a-b or ortf in some cases. You can never have enough mics ^^.
...
..and yeah all in all , a shotgun I need for sure too.. definetly not for my whole purpose and not as the next buy (it's not that handy and works not good when hidden or lets say unseen), but indeed it's a must have for outside. I have only ominis and cardioids so far
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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2822
Posted : May 18, 2012 19:09
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Check this out:
http://digitalaudioservice.de/sony-pcm-d50.html
I would not consider this as a semi pro device , actualy its a very good pro sounding one..
you can go to DAS and ask for testing it to be sure..
i use the smaller version to record my prof in university even from wide distance its crystal clear sound..
that device for sure is even better..handsome made, no cheap plastic crap etc..
cheers
-------......-------...-..-..-..-.-.-.-.- |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
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3315
Posted : May 18, 2012 21:42
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Quote:
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On 2012-05-15 12:59:44, TimeTraveller wrote:
Zoom and the small ones lacks of quality to a certain degree of own expirience I know that.
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It all depends, if you want timecode, Zoom is not for you, that said, I have used Zoom recorders many times for professional movie projects, simply for bg's, sfx or even ADR, and I know for fact that my old teacher Robert Grieve loves to use his H4 as well... You can hear sound examples of his Zoom recordings on movies like "Wyatt Earp" or "The Cable Guy"...
So no, Zoom is a great and professional recording device! It all depends really on how well you can record
A Zoom H4 is absolutely professional enough!!!
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
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3315
Posted : May 18, 2012 23:26
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Quote:
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On 2012-05-17 10:33, monno wrote:
IF you want to go outside and you want pro then prepare to carry more than a handy little device!
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It depends all on your sound source and the background noises. I have successfully recorded pro quality with a Zoom H4 outdoors. Of course the locations were right (e.g. away from the road etc). and I was able to get close to the sound source... you can add a second mic and record the background simultaneously, then invert the second recorded signal and get rid of a lot... make sure the other mic is pointed well away from the signal you want to record and does not pick it up. I like to use a dynamic mic when recording sounds in the city... but even with those two attached stereo condensers you can often succeed...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : May 19, 2012 07:22
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Quote:
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On 2012-05-17 10:33, monno wrote:
Field recorders are many things. First figure out if you will be doing a lot of close miking or if you prefer to record at a distance. Second figure out what characteristic you would like your mike to have. Forget about converter quality and focus on the abilities of the mic. I own a zoom thing. Plastic piece of crap but it´s actually better than good once i figured out it´s weaknesses. The stereo mics on these little bastards have a thing about picking up everything around them so i mostly use it for indoors stuff. IF you want to go outside and you want pro then prepare to carry more than a handy little device! For field recordings i would say only a shotgun mic in a blimp would be as "pro" as u describe. Converter quality comes in second as most modern converters sound good when used right (very important for mics since they are low gain devices, but less than you describe) I dont think i ever saw ben burrt running around with a compact handheld, neither anyone else known for their field recording chops. A cheap solid state recorder and a high end shotgun mic is my best suggestion. Anything compact falls in the semi pro category at best.
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Care to say anything else about overcoming the zoom's shortcomings? I have one and while I get useable stuff out of it sometimes there's a lot of background noise and I would love any tips on that or just getting good stuff out of it in general thanks!
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
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3207
Posted : May 22, 2012 01:48
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Quote:
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On 2012-05-18 19:09, Suloo wrote:
Check this out:
http://digitalaudioservice.de/sony-pcm-d50.html
I would not consider this as a semi pro device , actualy its a very good pro sounding one..
you can go to DAS and ask for testing it to be sure..
i use the smaller version to record my prof in university even from wide distance its crystal clear sound..
that device for sure is even better..handsome made, no cheap plastic crap etc..
cheers
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.. looks very interesting! Nice read & and the link to the good shop )
Thanks for input guys.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 15, 2012 01:20
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Quote:
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On 2012-05-19 07:22, willsanquil wrote:
Care to say anything else about overcoming the zoom's shortcomings? I have one and while I get useable stuff out of it sometimes there's a lot of background noise and I would love any tips on that or just getting good stuff out of it in general thanks!
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Be very careful when handling the Zoom H4, it is true that it picks up handling noise rather well, unfortunately, that said, if your hand doesn't move while on the Zoom you should be ok. Also always try to get as close to the sound source you want to record as possible. PLaying with distance, recording volume levels and using sound shields such as your own body or even cardboards or what have you, when applying one of the latter make sure they are not too reflective. Once you have the signal in your box, use something like Z noise (if you have to) to clean out any unwanted background noise. Also edit whetever you don't need away... lastly try again and again, as many times as possible, and be aware of your surroundings not by eyes, but by ears...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
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1153
Posted : Jun 15, 2012 10:18
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i have the pcm d50. it also picks up handling noises very easy. i have attached this
http://www.amazon.de/dp/B000EVSLRO/ref=asc_df_B000EVSLRO8317417?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&tag=googledeprodu-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22494&creativeASIN=B000EVSLRO
to it and when carrying it around only touching the gorillapod you do not hear your hands on the recording anymore.
you will need a proper windscreen for it to get rid of wind noise though for almost ALL outdoor recordings as the mics are very sensitive.
that all being said i find the recordings very very good with the internal mic, brilliant with great depth. not comparable with high end external mics of course, but well good enough for most uses for me!
love the device for its look, built quality and its sound!
on a sidenote: one of my friends is recording sound for film project, professional tv stuff even for geo and such high quality documentations. he uses the zoom4 a lot and has also borrowed my pcm d50. both deliver material good enough for broadcast with some post processing. he said the pcmd50s recordings are slightly better, or more detailed but both devices are fair enough!
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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