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Beginning of a new era : Klein & Hummel O300 + Benchmark DAC-1
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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411
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 02:02
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Well, there aren't many monitors with digital inputs. Besides the fact that they are more expensive there is another downside imo. Getting digital speakers even if they are the best you get stuck with their da converter for good, especially considering the money paid(if we talk high end digital monitors). Which means that sooner or later as technology advances so fast, the dacs on the monitors will be outdated and so the monitors. And then here you go again for new monitors. But if you invest in high end analog monitors they will probably last way longer and in the meantime you only have to upgrade your dac.
The whole point regarding dacs is to convert the error-free flawless digital signal to analog maintaining the same error-free flawless state of the original digital signal. That's why you need high end accurate, detailed and flat monitors in order to hear what your dac can deliver.
So the logical conclusion is that having one of the two(dac or monitors) in the greatest even quality still you are missing the other half and the sound will degrade because of the lower quality of the other component. But still the improvement on the sound will be from very good to extremely good depending again on the other half. Having them both is quite necessary imo, especially if you want to get as close as possible to pro level mixdowns and mastering(but don't forget the acoustic treatment, it's even more important than the most expensive hardware all together).
I hope now that you understand better why is so difficult to produce a really pro sounding track when the average soundcard uses super cheap ad/da chips and outputing the sound from average to middle quality monitors in a room that in most cases has none or very little acoustic treatment.
  A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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a212121
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
87
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 12:36
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Thanks! I still don't get it... if your soundcard outputs in digital and "high end digital monitors" input in digital why you need a converter, you are not using the digital monitors input? you input in analog?
Sorry I still don't know much about this stuff |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 12:52
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a212121...
As Alex explained,
you get stuck with the monitors DA for good... unless you buy another pair of speakers.
Moreover, you put a DA inside a speaker with an amplifier side by side - im not sure if any good will come out of this...
on a personal note,
I wouldn't mind getting stuck with a lavry converter inside a pair of imaginary digital PMCs...
Alex, I sure hope you have the listening space to experience the DAC1.
I assume that we can all agree, high end converters like benchmark, mytek, apogee or lucid might have those slight differences that will eventually affect our tastes when heard (not talking about Prism and the likes) - but all in all have perfectly well sounding results.
A question,
I want to get a second hand minidac. Something needs to feed my *cough* PMCs , I imagine it'll be better than my delta66 for sure...(thank god i have digital i/o)
Question is if to get the minime for the preamps... it comes with adc, but i might replace the adc in a later stage if I want to.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 12:58
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Quote:
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On 2007-11-20 12:36, a212121 wrote:
Thanks! I still don't get it... if your soundcard outputs in digital and "high end digital monitors" input in digital why you need a converter, you are not using the digital monitors input? you input in analog?
Sorry I still don't know much about this stuff
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Because DACs have a lot of difference in quality. A good DAC costs money - the studio - level ones start at around $700, but they offer a much clearer sound than even the highest quality all-in-one soundcard + routing + ADDA bundles like the RME Fireface and MOTU ones (which are leagues better than M-Audio and the entry level studio solutions). I could babble about the subtle differences, but seriously - good monitors are limited by the signal they get, and monitors that have digital inputs just have their own built-in DACs - which you can't upgrade without buying new monitors. The sound you hear is most definately analog (you aren't hearing 0s and 1s), the conversion has to take place somewhere in order for you to hear it. What better solution than high-quality dedicated hardware is there for that? |
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a212121
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
87
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 13:29
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Thanks!
So you buy digital speakers for nothing.. you still use them as analog speakers lol ok
"and monitors that have digital inputs just have their own built-in DACs"
Ahh!!!... right they still need to convert the signal to analog for the sound to come out
"The sound you hear is most definately analog (you aren't hearing 0s and 1s)"
DUH!! didn't think about that lol
So now I miss the point of having digital speakers, let me see... thats why you ended up buying "O 300" and not the "O 300D"?
"O 300D" are the "O 300" with a DAC inside? So you buy the DAC separate so that you can upgrade
thanks again |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:14
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thanks Alex for the answer,i m selling my RME ,i hope it ll be a nice upgrade in the sound.
Trip- it s few days i m reading lot of things about da and i ll say forget apogee ! i have read many bad things about this company too . |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:35
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PoM...
I wouldn't forget Apogee, i'm just not sure about that AD.
Which RME are you selling?
Alex,
about the dac1,
Are you planning on using the headphones output? It seems strange for me that one knob controls both outputs simultaneously, which makes listening on "headphones only during recording" unavailable.
Will need to put another volume knob (goldpt) from the dac to the speakers to mute them. Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:37
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It s a Adi 2 ,same converter as the fireface 800 but with a other/better circuit (if what they say is true...)i m selling it cause i have no volume control on it, and if i want one very transperent it ll cost me the same price as selling it and buy a lavry da10 or a Dac 1. |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:41
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So i'm thinking of upgrading to a better D/A setup as well.
Right now i'm using my Fireface 400, i already have a mackie mixer & the FF400 preamps are about the same quality as the mackies.
So supposing i sell the FF400 & get the DAC-1 or something similar. What interface would you recommend i use to connect it to my DAW?
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:45
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rme or lynx , maybe a rme with no d/a ll do the job. when i upgraded my sound card from echo mia to rme hdsp32 even if i don t useed the d/a of both , i heard a nice update in the sound with the rme . |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:45
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So you were not using the AD? only the DA?
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:47
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yes right now i don t use the A/D anymore , it s a reason why i want to sell it to get a better d/a and i m curious how it ll afect the sound |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 14:51
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 15:05
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i think you ll have a loss of quality , if you need a/d convertion too i ll keep the ff400 or upgrade to a better ad/da convertor not only a d/a . |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Nov 20, 2007 15:53
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Well i was thinking of getting a good d/a convertor now & then sometime in the future a good dedicated preamp.
So you think it makes sense to keep the FF400 & invest in a new D/A convertor & a decent preamp?
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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