| Author
|
bassline problem
|
e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 16:28
|
my bassline sounds amazing (ok, not amazing but i feel proud for it hehe) but when i listen to it in my phones (or close to my speakers, yes, speakers) it sounds strange. i don't know how to describe it but it's something noisy, muddy and powerless.
my idea is that it sounds cool because of my subwoofer (i have a 2.1 low-budget system) but when played with regular speakers\phones it sounds this way.
this happened to me with all basslines: Tritium (the one i use mostly), Tau and even Reason's subractor back when i used Reason. only VB1 doesn't get that bad.
however this doesn't happen with real tracks (well a little because my phones don't have the same bass as my woofer but the change is minimal when compared with what happens with my tracks).
so my doubt is how do i avoid this with minimal change to the bass?
PS: i use PSP MixBass, GCO and Eqium to process the bass. |
|
|
NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 16:32
|
I know exactly what you mean... that the bassline changes slightly (whether in pitch or in sound) when you move further forward and away from the speakers from normal...
I had this... unfortunately the only way to get rid of it is with abit of hard work. Try notch EQ'ing. I guess your bassline is a full on rolling single note 16th bass. Because if there is a more bouncy melodic bassline the ear tends to not focus in on the precise sounds in the sequence.
Edit: the fact that it sounds strange in your phones says something. It means the sound itself is not right. try eq'ing a few more mids in and again notch eq'ing (where you make a slim indentation in an eq and lower only a few frequencies at a time.
 www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
|
|
|
fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 16:40
|
Try throwing a LPF filter over the whole mix and bring it down to around 100 Hz, or until you just hear the subs. You ought to feel them more than hear them - boost the volume if necessary.
Then take an eq with a high Q and gain and sweep it down around the subs region. Stop when the bassline gets boomy. Put an EQ point at that troublesome frequency (might be more than one) and put the Q at max and the gain as low as it goes.
You now have an EQ point slicing in to that frequency.
What I like to do now is drop my Q all the way as low as it goes which ought to cut out almost all of your bassline. Now slowly bring up the Q - you ought to hear the bassline start to fatten up. Keep raising the Q until your bassline is nice and fat again, but not boomy at that particular frequency.
You may need to do this more than once if your bassline has a lot of boominess.
EDIT: of course you could do this same thing for the kick, to make sure it fits with the bass. I'll usually cut the fundamental frequency of my bassline out of my kick, so that it creates a hole in the kick. For instance, if my bassline is bouncing along in the key of D, I'll cut a decent hole at 36.71Hz in my kick. (http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html) As long as my kick is fat above and below that frequency I can get away with cutting a hole in it. That empty space in the kick really helps 'marry' it to the bassline - a match made in heaven! (which looks a lot like my studio)
peace
EDIT2: I also like to use a compressor on my kick and bass in a group channel, but mostly as a way to see how balanced they are. I'll throw on a compressor and start tweaking it (ratio @ 10, attack @ 0, release @ max, lower the threshold until compressor starts to bite, then lower release until it pumps pleasantly, etc...) - while tweaking I pay attention to what gets compressed. Usually it's my kick in the subs region, which is desireable. But if it seems that my kick has to get squashed to death before I hear the bassline get compressed, then I know that the subs in my kick are out of hand and I'll go back and pay some more attention to the subs of my kick with EQ (usually widening my hole or maybe a gentle hpf).
I like a little compression on my kick and bass, but usually only enough so that it keeps the subs 'pumping' rather than droning. I don't want to hear the compression, just feel it.
Here I've blabbered on like you're some novice, I'm just posting everything that comes to mind in the hopes that you (or someone else) finds it useful
doof on.  |
|
|
|
rob-ot
M-Field
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
123
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 18:21
|
why not choose a better bassline sound/synth/etc.?
Half the stuff you hear relased is just a straight ES M with a bit of overdrive dialed in, no comp no eq.
|
|
|
|
e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 18:48
|
what is ES M ? and every channel of mine has eq and comp so i doubt about that 
fuzzikitten thanks a lot ! i used a notch filter arround 200hz and the bassline is much better now (altough not perfect) even when not using the phones... thanks 
anyway can anyone give me more tips to improve my mixing ?
here's the sample:
http://s59.yousendit.com/d.php?id=1T6SFUJWM5J4S3RYHUXXJS3MSW |
|
|
|
Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 19:03
|
es-m is a very good logic synth for basses. i use it...
what u can do is bounce some samples from es-m and load them into cubase via a sampler.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
|
|
|
WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 22:22
|
then some body PLEASE take the trouble of uploading some MULTI-SAmpLED ESM bass patches ....
cmon guys ,waiting to dwonload them .... 
thank you
respect ... chandan
|
|
|
|
artilect2050
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
32
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 23:03
|
I can't upload them, but mail them to ya if you wish
cheers
|
|
|
|
PsYmOrPh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
309
Posted : Jul 25, 2005 23:20
|
|
e-motion.... in think the problem is in the eq and the compression...and until u don't make the mastering of the track u can't get the same sound on different sound systems... |
|
|
|
e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jul 26, 2005 00:01
|
|
the link is not working |
|
|
|
NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Jul 26, 2005 01:10
|
|
diskonekt
Fat Data
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1112
Posted : Jul 26, 2005 04:26
|
|
Nice samples there ... a kind person indeed
Peace, Love, Death metal |
|
|
|
shachar
Basic
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
402
Posted : Jul 26, 2005 11:35
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-07-25 16:32, NikC wrote:
I know exactly what you mean... that the bassline changes slightly (whether in pitch or in sound) when you move further forward and away from the speakers from normal...
|
|
what you describe is a bad acoustics in the room. its hard to make good mixes if your hearing all wrong in your rooms |
|
|
|
rob-ot
M-Field
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
123
Posted : Jul 26, 2005 20:01
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-07-25 18:48, e-motion wrote:
what is ES M ? and every channel of mine has eq and comp so i doubt about that
fuzzikitten thanks a lot ! i used a notch filter arround 200hz and the bassline is much better now (altough not perfect) even when not using the phones... thanks
anyway can anyone give me more tips to improve my mixing ?
here's the sample:
http://s59.yousendit.com/d.php?id=1T6SFUJWM5J4S3RYHUXXJS3MSW
|
|
d00d, not every channel HAS to have an eq and compressor. Granted for a professional sound it ends up being that most channels have eq and compression; an example of this is that all synth sounds except for bass need to have a high-pass filter to remove all low end. And most synth sounds need compression so that its placement in the mix stays consistent.
I think often people learn a particualr dictum and feel that it must be applied in all cases. There are always exceptions, and one has to refine their ears to know the exceptions.
I saw that very good producers, some of whom are well known names, prefer to not put any compression or eq on kick and bass, and instead prefer to get the sound right at the synthesis and sample choice stage. In general this is preferrable for all sounds....with the caveat that all mid to upper sounds need a low-cut/high-pass filter.
Its very easy to overdo EQ. Very easy. When one begins to notch out frequencies, or say cut everyting below 40-50hz (whihc is popular with some people), you can get a _boxed in_ sound that is rather castrated and lacking in oomph. Sure, it may be even frequency wise, but you just lost that lower-chakra rumble that makes dance music so great. Granted too much subbass isnt good, but mastering engineers will throw a filter over the entier mix at 20-30hz, or you can do so yourself at the mastering stage.
in my experience i've found that getting the right bass sound at the synthesis stage, and a good kick that is consonant with the bassline, then getting levels right, is the way to go. And yes, maybe a slight dip on the bassline at 150-200 with a fairly narrow q can make the kick stand out more, or else a slight boost at that range on the kick....but it just depends. Its still better to get it right before eq. |
|
|
|
rob-ot
M-Field
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
123
Posted : Jul 26, 2005 20:05
|
caveat:
e-motion, now i'm not saying that you're not a good producer or anything or being crtitical of how you do things, i have no basis on which to judge. I'm only going what i've learned from people i highly respect and have a great sound, and my own intuition. Also i'm commenting generally on how people i think tend tho think that because something is 'good' or 'necessary' it must be done in all cases (like eq and compression).
|
|
|
|
