| Author
|
Bass Attack Settings?
|
bLv
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
35
Posted : Jul 7, 2004 13:19
|
How important is the (volume) attack with psy basslines?
I would think "VERY"?
How can I achieve this varying attack? Through automation of my VST plugin?
ANd what if I use bass samples?
Any advice?
peace be the journey |
|
|
mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jul 7, 2004 22:29
|
I use the attack (better known as velocity) in a lot of my basslines. It can be very important if you are trying to establish a groove on your bassline. Try making your standard 16th note full on bassline and lowering the velocity on certain notes. Here's a rough sketch of what I am talking about (K= Kick, B= High velocity bassnote, b= low velocity bass note)
K---K---K---K---
-bBb-bBb-bBb-bBb
Depending on what you are using for your main sequencer will tell you how to edit your velocities. They are usually found in the piano roll in most software sequencers.
You can still edit the velocity of a sample too... just like programming "ghost" notes for a snare or hi-hat part....
 An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
|
|
|
PsyGoatDelic
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
359
Posted : Jul 7, 2004 22:41
|
Quote:
|
On 2004-07-07 22:29, mubali wrote:
I use the attack (better known as velocity) in a lot of my basslines. It can be very important if you are trying to establish a groove on your bassline. Try making your standard 16th note full on bassline and lowering the velocity on certain notes. Here's a rough sketch of what I am talking about (K= Kick, B= High velocity bassnote, b= low velocity bass note)
K---K---K---K---
-bBb-bBb-bBb-bBb
Depending on what you are using for your main sequencer will tell you how to edit your velocities. They are usually found in the piano roll in most software sequencers.
You can still edit the velocity of a sample too... just like programming "ghost" notes for a snare or hi-hat part....
|
|
for every one who havnt figured yet what gms&friends like bassline i was talking about...
this stracture of kick-bass i talked about and evry one is using this stracture hundreds of tracks sounds the same just with different squeks and samples sometimes...
hop ull understand members, artists, friends and who ever
|
|
|
|
mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jul 7, 2004 23:01
|
Well, it is true that this has been used a lot by other producers, however the tone of the notes really are what make up how GMS'y the basslines sound. Those basslines tend to have a higher note on the note with the higher velocity. However one could make the argument that the reason why a lot of people use the same velocity trick is because it WORKS and people got tired of doing 16th note basslines without any velocity changes...
I was just making an example of what velocity changes can do for a bassline. You can edit the velocity of different notes to get a different groove, or you can not edit any velocities and still figure out a way to add that groove to it.... I am sorry that you have a distaste for the GMS full on bassline, and personally, I can't get into the bouncy basslines that their latter stuff uses. (I.E. Red Dragon) However, their production skills have indeed revolutionalized how people make their trance and a lot of the reasons why a lot of people make similar sounding basslines is because the stuff works. That doesn't mean they will always work for everyone, but I feel that it isn't constructive to discard someone's tip that was requested. And please by all means post your own tip on that so that we can see how you make your bassline. (And for the record, I don't listen to GMS, I am into the dark stuff and things like Digital Talk, Fungus Funk, Azax Syndrom....) But just because it's dark doesn't mean it can't be kinda funky....
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
|
|
|
PsyGoatDelic
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
359
Posted : Jul 7, 2004 23:10
|
i allways working on 16th note bassline. it is hard work but it is original!!!
btw heard youre trance... very good! didnt expected that kind of trance from usa. keep up and maybe some day there will be a album, or well see u in israel or both. Peace
|
|
|
|
br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Jul 10, 2004 08:35
|
attack is not the same as volume. and volume is not the same as velocity. attack is an ambiguous term which can indicate the VCA attack, VCF attack, compressor attack, etc. velocity is a parameter which governs how a synth reacts to the force with which the key is hit or the note is drawn in an editor, although MIDI main volume (controller 7) is its most common target. important to know the difference.
velocity control to MAIN volume is passable in psy basslines but more often than not, especially with loudness wars in full on you're going to get more mileage out of filter, envelope, FX, and LFO modulation on your basslines than by simply pushing the volume up and down to create your variation, because it's going to allow you to keep the bassline "in your face." believe it or not, from listening i can determine that a lot of the best basslines arent really all that dynamic, they are just designed well at the filter/amp envelope stage, with the right kind of overdrive, right layering, waveshaping, etc.
the first thing you should always consider is the SOUND. how BAD (not bad meanin bad but bad meanin GOOD) is the sound? does the line work across the range you're writing it for? why or why not? flappy sound? you trying to use a sine wave where you should be using a saw? not enough env amount? VCA attack too long? synth capable of a short enough attack (the best synths pop when attack is set to 0, ie minimoog?) are the right partials represented? can the right partials be introduced by synthesis alone? on the same module? if not, can you layer another bass patch over it? if not, can an overdrive or reducer give it some presence? etc
really the best basslines are written by dedicated synthesists who put time into the discovery of weird and interesting modulations and assignments, and also who then mix them well with the use of EQ via overdrives, bit reducers, etc...IMO |
|
|
|
Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Jul 10, 2004 20:05
|
ok
Attack and Velocity are not the same - the Attack is on the Amplitude envelope. In order to use this correctly, you're gonna have to work your ass off, but can get some wicked results... Beast - Trouble (Psilocybin Remix) is a good example of how it's done right.
If you did mean the velocity, well, just work in a way that sounds good. Fuck the formula and the kbbb basslines, everyone's done that a zillion times, it's boring and it's got nothing to do with groove in 99% of the cases. Without empty spaces in your bass your groove will never be as slick as Son Kite for instance. http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
|
|
|
bLv
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
35
Posted : Jul 12, 2004 19:18
|
Just to clear things up a bit....
I was actually meaning attack in the ADSR envelope sense. Definitely not the "volume" but the attack of the volume.
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams..." -- Arthur O'Shaughnessy |
|
|
|
Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Jul 12, 2004 19:31
|
Well, if you want to play around with the attack settings, you will have to trust your ears a lot. I'd work with a compressor and a noise gate after writing the actual line to give it a more uniform volume, and of course, those come after the EQ work. After that you have to tweak the positions of the notes so it fits with the groove of the track, and voila, your bassline fits and sounds very organic.
Check out Beast - Trouble (Psilocybin Remix) to see how it's done perfectly 
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
|
|
|
ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Jul 12, 2004 22:46
|
you need to know that some synths can change the envelope speed (like attack time) through a controller (or velocity).,
maybe you are hearing things that cannot be (easily) done with the synths you have.,
also, it's possible to make a sound that sounds a bit like a changing attack but it only has a fixed attack rate but has amplifier and filter envelope levels on velocity., (so, basically, experiment)
maybe you can change it with automation but not all synths react well to this kind of changes.,
so just try it.,
overall the attack is very important,
for bass sounds between 0 and 12 miliseconds works good imo .,
greets.,
aka., |
|
|
|
|
