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Bass and Leads
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Zadarki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
27
Posted : Jan 3, 2014 19:53:03
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Hi guys i have one question when you have various leads running with the bass what can you do to ear both the bass and the leads at a decent level , in the mix i left the leads group 3db lower than the bass and kick(mono) group but for some reason it appears that the bass loses some power with the leads running its almost like the leads eat the bass i usally cut the low freq of the leads to. |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jan 3, 2014 20:13
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Well, this depends on the mix, and there are many procedures you can make to have a good placement in the mix. But, nothing better than showing us with an example!
There's no magic number the levels should be, but which should be dominant? The bass, or the leads?
Taking that we have a frequency spectrum, I'd say it depends on the frequency  For the bass frequencies, I want the kick + bass to be the prominent sound, so first: nothing should be louder than the beat and second: the remaining sounds shouldn have too much bass, so there is no fight for these frequencies in the beginning.
So, the most basic trick is but ou the bass from all your leads! If your bass is lacking space, make room for the bass to breath
But, there are millions of ways you can mix a tune, and a lot of processing tricks to do. You bass is mono, use mid-side processing on the leads (particularly in the low frequencies) to make space. Side-chain compression could do the trick too. I think the best answer is figure out what works for you!
But please make an example: one bar with just the beat going on, then bring in the leads, so we can hear what you are saying and point out some tricks for you to make it sound better
Hope I helped.
 Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Zadarki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
27
Posted : Jan 3, 2014 23:33
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yhea i usually cut leads betwen 0-250hz and let the bass and kick at the top of the mix here is the example at 1.20-2min https://soundcloud.com/imaki/fst-v2
producing with headphones |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Jan 3, 2014 23:46
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it's mostly about EQ, using a highpass filter on the other sounds. it's also about the octaves being played to, this places the sound on different frequencies already. can't think of a psytrance track where the kick and bass are not the loudest of sounds, even when you don't perceive it like that.
but the high pass on leads and pads is just half of the story. if you feel your bass gets lost, maybe there's a different fight taking place: somewhere round 1-1.2KHz, where the presence of the bass, the click that gives the transient it's contour is. same story with the Kick, you need some portion of it to come through higher up otherwise it's just a boomy sound underneath everything, kind of barried in the mix. so take care of those two conflicts, instead of just one and you should be fine. mid/side is a way to deal with it, altough you shouldn't really need it, unless it's a pretty busy mix. |
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Zadarki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
27
Posted : Jan 3, 2014 23:55
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so what you are saying is to pay more attention to the mid freq in the leads and not only the low freqs so if i understand it if e cut betwen 1- 1.200khz in the leads it will open some space for the mid freq of the kick and bass and that will help to create space for it when are many leads running right ? of course the mix is always important to |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Jan 4, 2014 06:01
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Quote:
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On 2014-01-03 23:55, Zadarki wrote:
so what you are saying is to pay more attention to the mid freq in the leads and not only the low freqs so if i understand it if e cut betwen 1- 1.200khz in the leads it will open some space for the mid freq of the kick and bass and that will help to create space for it when are many leads running right ? of course the mix is always important |
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the highpass filters should be enough to clear things up for the low end. but if it's not, maybe the Kick and/or Bass needs a little more presence, somewhere on the 1-1.5Khz region (usually), so maybe you need to layer a hat on your Kick, or a touch of noise or if you have those frequencies there, just a slight boost. sidechaining those conflicting sounds with the kick is also a good idea for this. or cutting a bit of the centre of the leads and leaving the sides there... many options.
wouldn't cut the leads much myself, specially not a lowpass filter all the way down there, you'd suck the life out of them in no time. if you feel they're interfering to much with the hats or those frequencies where the transient of kick and bass comes through, try to notch some dB out without it being to noticeable.
if all this fails, then play the leads on another octave or something. also clears the way. hope it helps |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jan 4, 2014 14:52
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Bass doesn't get perceived as loud by the human ear as lets say a 2000 hz frequency, the most audible frequency sits at around 4000hz. so we have to mix accordingly to the human ear, which means a lead without bass frequencies has to be a lot less loud than the peak of a bass in order to create an equilibrium that lets you hear the bass.... furthermore the transient of the bass note sits at a higher frequency than the fundamental note, so yes, you gotta be careful there...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Jan 4, 2014 20:04
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I just found this on another thread, by Cosmosis:
"On the Kick:
Here's a couple of useful tips for the e.q on the Kick.
1. A small boost with a medium q at around 4 khz will emphasise the "click" of the kick to allow it to not get buried in the mix.
2. If a kick needs some "punch" then a small boost with medium q centred around 120hz - 250hz will give some body. This frequency band gives the kick punch and drive (which often can be what's required) without adding problematic lows.
3. If a kick need some sub added or removed, use the parametric e.q. A low shelf is a bit too crude a tool for this kind of work. Using the parametric tip above, zoom exactly in on the area which needs treatment. Fairly narrow q often works best. You'll need to be precise with the low frequencies because in the dark netherworld of the sub regions, just going from 40 hz - 80 hz is a whole octave. If you find yourself having to boost the low end with a low shelf, then it maybe best to use another kick sample, unless of course you don't have anything better, in which case carry on.
"
this is pretty much what we're talking about here. that's why if you search for sound design tips for kick drums, a second layer always gets mentioned. 'cause you need the boom part of the Kick, usually the result of a sine wave that starts a few octaves up and lands on the desired note in a few ms, or using the self oscillating filter, resonance maxed up and modulating the cuttoff position with an envelope. more modern kicks, you'd place another pitch envelope in there afterwards and check the volume of the whole and perhaps pull some parts up, some down... ufff... ok, but unless you got this click, this snappy attack that really bytes and cuts through the mix already, then you need to add another layer to it.
white noise with a very snappy envelope can deliver this click, and you can always filter/eq it to fit, then process the two together, so forth and so on (presumably explained to death somewhere else in here...). the reason I'm going into so much detail here, is for you to get a sense that even though this is refered to as being a low end instrument, the transient/click part of the Kick needs to be there otherwise it's going to be burried as soon as you start filling in the mix, pretty similar to what Cosmosis was saying there.
about his own tips: I think it's not a good idea to boost with digital EQ, since it's easier to create a mess then to actually improve anything - specially on the low end. but not such a bad idea with analogue modeled ones, with very gentle settings, like he says there 3dB or something similar is already a lot. |
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Ancient Alien
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
269
Posted : Jan 6, 2014 00:49
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Quote:
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On 2014-01-03 23:46, frisbeehead wrote:
it's mostly about EQ, using a highpass filter on the other sounds. it's also about the octaves being played to, this places the sound on different frequencies already. can't think of a psytrance track where the kick and bass are not the loudest of sounds, even when you don't perceive it like that.
but the high pass on leads and pads is just half of the story. if you feel your bass gets lost, maybe there's a different fight taking place: somewhere round 1-1.2KHz, where the presence of the bass, the click that gives the transient it's contour is. same story with the Kick, you need some portion of it to come through higher up otherwise it's just a boomy sound underneath everything, kind of barried in the mix. so take care of those two conflicts, instead of just one and you should be fine. mid/side is a way to deal with it, altough you shouldn't really need it, unless it's a pretty busy mix.
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in Goa, principally at suntrip releases,
there much times u barely hear bass and kick, where leads are very loud....theres no rules at all...nitzhonot goa always have a loud and strong kick, Goasia let the bassline very loud comparing to leads...
i mix all my channels almost on the same lvl, kick and bass are just 1+db higher and its good...everthing is ok to hear
https://soundcloud.com/ancientaliengoa
Goa for life |
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