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Bar/beat structure of breakdowns
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bLv
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 12:28
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This is quite a complicated question but here goes:
Say you have a 4 beat "breakdown" (eg. drop the kick and bassline & have a sweep or reverse crash). Does this breakdown start at the end of a 8-beat bar or does it start half way through a bar?
Is it
(i) k---k---k---k---k---k---k---k--- b---b---b---b--- k---k---k---k---k---k---k---k---
or
(ii) k---k---k---k--- b---b---b---b--- k---k---k---k---k---k---k---k---
where "k" is the kick and "b" is the beat in the 4-beat "breakdown".
I think ive heard both in tracks but wont (i) be alot harder to mix?
Also I think (ii) helps keep your track in sections of 8/16 bars. (which is "neccessary" to mix easy)
Thoughts?
  "We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams..." -- Arthur O'Shaughnessy |
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 15:57
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i dont know if i understand very well your question but breaks usualy come inside the loop. you do not have to create extra space, it comes from inside the loop, it can be a 4 kick break or a 8 kick break or 16 kick break or even just a 2 kick break but always inside the loop, no matter if your loops are every 8 or 16 or 32 or 64 kicks. even the big big breaks always respect the loops |
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bLv
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 16:06
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Yeah basically you rite on.
So I dont have to insert a 4-beat (or 8-beat or whateva) "space" between bars for my breakdowns?
Cool tnx.
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams..." -- Arthur O'Shaughnessy |
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FUNKKIMUNKKI
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 16:44
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a great musician (John McLaughlin) once said.. as u soon as u start to think when u make music ur lost.. i agree with him...
ill push u over the edge, and will be smiling when u cant take anymore, at that point ill push a little harder till u experience true psychdelica |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 16:58
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The fact that you're looking for a formula for breakdowns means that you're not a musician. Just do what sounds right, leave the mixing to the DJs, all of them keep talking about how good they are - make them prove it 
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 19:10
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bLv
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 21:04
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Okay Okay I get the point. Just tryin figure out the "border-lines" here. Not looking for THE-BE-ALL-AND-END-ALL formula. Was just curious 2 c how most people get things done. Thanks for all the responses.
Dont shoot me down now! Aaaaiiiiiii
peace Bruvas
OUT
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams..." -- Arthur O'Shaughnessy |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
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Posted : Jul 30, 2004 22:47
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BLV
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can you be more specific ?
REST
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Actualy let's say i do agree with all of you here !
but
Music is notes and psytrance have these combined with complex grooves which imho have nothing to do with music .
Answer me one thing why most of you put 4/4 kick ? coz it is formula isn't it ? Why the open hat you put is 4/4 between kicks ? same it is not formula but correct music flow according the musician you use here .
So the point is that BASS and KICK are part of groove so there can be formula for that !
In groove there are formulas i hope someone who know to play drums will respond to this Topic .
I think that way , 90% of psytrance artists have no music talent and nothing creative in head so how they produce ? USE formulas but you must be new age of psytrance .
You are all great musicians using such claims but think before you say such smart=== essay !
I did not hear anything musicly correct in psytrance for ages so you all must be again new age of artists which produce music and not weirdo sound .
Colin
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I did not expect from you to say such thing ! sorry |
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FUNKKIMUNKKI
IsraTrance Junior Member
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184
Posted : Jul 31, 2004 00:34
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formulas should give u an idea, not limit u
and 4/4 is the most common applied structure in western music btw.. not only in psytrance..
ill push u over the edge, and will be smiling when u cant take anymore, at that point ill push a little harder till u experience true psychdelica |
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bLv
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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35
Posted : Jul 31, 2004 08:56
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Thanks my question was basically answered. Ill just setup the breakdowns close my eyes and see/hear what "feels" right to me.
Thanks also to Sektor666 who saw a "point" to my question and didnt shoot me down...
peace
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams..." -- Arthur O'Shaughnessy |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jul 31, 2004 22:21
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Quote:
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On 2004-07-30 22:47, Sektor666 wrote:
I did not expect from you to say such thing ! sorry
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Maybe I should have been more selective with what I included in the quote... I meant to agree wholeheartedly with the bit about letting DJs prove they are as good as they say they are...
If you're looking for a 'formula' for an aspect of psytrance (other than basic production skills, and even that is debatable) then you're just reducing the scope for creativity in your own tracks. There are many ways breaks can happen, depending on what comes before them, what comes after them and what effect you want them to have... but this is a very subjective thing and IMO is best left for one's own discovery.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
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Posted : Aug 1, 2004 00:27
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Most of us do not have the abillity to produce music that's why *Led Zeppelin's music still alive these very days . But some of us can learn "formulas" to create some "thing" like music , thing which will remind it but won't be it .
It is how Psy music sound "The thing like ....." : one big formula , the DNA fucking RECORDS production , where only chosen produce someshit that remind music . So why not to join the scene ?
* - an example of great muscians
It was a psylosophy now back to subject , For real musician (not most of psy producers) use of formula close artist inside box , there is no real technics for production or sound design but again it is for real musician .
So i do agree and disargee with you in the same time . The reason i stopped to produce is , I SAW HOW ALL THIS LOOKING FROM "SIDE" .
I hope you understood the message behind the text ! |
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bLv
IsraTrance Junior Member
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13
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35
Posted : Aug 2, 2004 10:27
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Very good points!..
"We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams..." -- Arthur O'Shaughnessy |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Aug 2, 2004 13:56
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Quote:
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On 2004-08-01 00:27, Sektor666 wrote:
Most of us do not have the abillity to produce music that's why *Led Zeppelin's music still alive these very days . But some of us can learn "formulas" to create some "thing" like music , thing which will remind it but won't be it .
It is how Psy music sound "The thing like ....." : one big formula , the DNA fucking RECORDS production , where only chosen produce someshit that remind music . So why not to join the scene ?
* - an example of great muscians
It was a psylosophy now back to subject , For real musician (not most of psy producers) use of formula close artist inside box , there is no real technics for production or sound design but again it is for real musician .
So i do agree and disargee with you in the same time . The reason i stopped to produce is , I SAW HOW ALL THIS LOOKING FROM "SIDE" .
I hope you understood the message behind the text !
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Psytrance is music, if i produce psytrance i am a musician. Thats the way it is.
Signature |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 2, 2004 14:31
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If you produce psytrance then you're a producer... maybe (if you're good) a composer.
You don't need to be a musician to make psytrance; eJay and the sample CD boom put paid to that. All you need nowadays is Ableton Live and a selection of sounds and loops that someone else has already created to work well together. You can get them off any number of file-sharing services.
The definition of a musician is someone who plays a musical instrument, not someone who knows how to drag and drop sounds from one window into another, or edit notes with a mouse.
Personally, I think there are two types of producers in the psytrance scene; musicians and technicians. The best trance comes from projects or people that are both of these. Trance made by technicians only can be interesting but I find it a bit sterile.
Think of the most well-known acts, eg IM and Hallucinogen... both projects are composed of people who are both excellent technicians and talented traditional musicians.
I'm sure though that someone here will give an example of a world-famous and respected producer who has absolutely no traditional musical talent whatsoever, just to prove me wrong!
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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