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Avoiding the kick and bass sound muddy together ?
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Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
224
Posts :
149
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 18:01
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Hi !
Finally i´ve manage to get a my bass and kick sound quite good.But when i play them together i believe they collide with eachother.I´ve tried to make my kick shorter in soundforge and imported it again into flp but i believe it´s difficult to know how much you should cut on the kick and when im done i feel i miss a lot from the kicks original groove.
What is the right way to do this ?
Should you cut the kick or should you use some kind of a sidechaining effect ?
Please help me out , regards Conny |
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diskonekt
Fat Data
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1112
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 19:25
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Check this thread here for sidechaining in FL
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/81672/forum/2
should be big help.
Also, since you use FL this is what i like to do with my kicks so they get shorter in length without losing the punch:
Load a kick on a sampler channel, then go to the time stretching thing and set the time knob to "1 beat" and set the little drop down menu next to it at "slice map".Should sound much better, works for me anyway
cheers!
 Peace, Love, Death metal |
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Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
224
Posts :
149
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 21:25
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Hi age_of_panic !
I will try the sidechainfunction in flp and see what happens, remember it gave me nasty distortion when i used it before so maybe i did something wrong.I will set flp to "1 beat" aswell.
Thanx for your advices, i think you´ve helped me a lot before so im curious where this will lead me.
Take care Conny
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 22:59
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hellou conny
so u work on a version for mastering or u're working just on a project.
if its just a project dont care a lot about how strong is your kik, its most important that kik , bass and all other elements sounds clean with a master vol, lowerd to -3db -5db. the power of the kik will become later. at the final stage. when u will put some compressor on your master chain. dont try to achieve a kik as strong as your fav. songs cuz this will eat all other things in your trak. try to find a balance between all. the final boosting will come from a compresor. otherwise you'l enter in an neverending volume-slider battle in your sequencer..
anyway. a kik should be about 20ms long for a 145bpm trak. if it eats some of your bass freqs than just cut them on your bas. its a tetris-game all this. for example. cut your kik at 30Hz (the audible barrier), but your bass at 40-50Hz. the bass wont loose power but u'll open some room for the lowest subbas freq of your kik. thus it wont interfare
hope it helps
Sound:
www.myspace.com/oxidelic
www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
www.antumbra-studio.com |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 23:31
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i dont think it must not take care of the kick before the mastering stage.
a good kick will sound better when mastered a weak kick will be weak whatever u do.
i agree about the overall balance of the sounds before master but u must take care all the sounds to be as much as perfect u can do them before the mastering!
a good mix must sound as good as it gets and mastering engineer will only have to take care of overall volume and not the quality of the mix cos if it has to make a weak kick sound better he also will change many things of the mix's sound to achieve a good kick!
try to make the best overall sound and let the engineer worry about the volume and maybe some minor tweaks of the overall mix like a little bit removing of to much bass and adding some highs!
mastering will make a good mix sound louder and a bit better but not make a bad mix sound nice!
orange
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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psyaudionamics
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
546
Posted : Jul 21, 2006 00:29
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have u tried a gate on ya kick to shorten it???? I get good results in that manner... let me know? |
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
619
Posted : Jul 21, 2006 00:41
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@ orange.
sure man u're right. u just misunderstood me. I ment not that he must not worry at all but, not to try to make a kik that sounds like an already mastered one. cuz later it will be alwfuly distorted when the final mastering stage comes.
he must look for the best balance between all the instruments. and sure the kik must be the strongest of them all, but under some general balance and good equalization between everything, without producing clips.
thats what i ment.
full respect to your work thoug 
Sound:
www.myspace.com/oxidelic
www.myspace.com/setanicmusic
Image:
www.antumbra-studio.com |
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Nik
Error Corrective
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
142
Posted : Jul 21, 2006 17:38
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not so sure that u should deliberately use a weak kick before mastering.
get everything as close to the finished product as possible as the mastering engineer wont often balance the track the way that you would like. really mastering is good for sticking your track through expensive valve systems....yummy.
as for the short kick thing....im not so sure about that either.
kicks can be long but you just have to take care not to have too much of the 1st partial in your bass. if you can trim the level in this area down a bit youll find that u can have a nice juicy long kick with a fruity bassline riding over the top.
many tracks have long kicks, it brings weight - but of course others have short kicks when the bass is needed for providing more of a machine gun sub rhythm.
20ms is a very short length for a kick drum though....should be more like 100ms surely!
1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0-?-0-1 |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jul 21, 2006 22:46
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maybe not the kick, but the bass is the problem. have you tried working out the bass? usually there is not much space to modify a kick but the bass as 1000 different parameters.
the muddy feeling: if the kick and bass are not played in the same time, they even cant phase with each other.
if it still sounds muddy, then try to figure out which frequences, scan them with a bell-eq peak and glide through the frequences to the point where the muddy-feeling is from, then slowly sink it down to reduce it. |
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Adrenal Mode
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
308
Posted : Jul 22, 2006 21:16
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Hi Conny, Its all about balance man, try this with eq:
Kick - Boost 50-100Hz , Cut 450-630Hz , Boost 1500-2500kHz and cut abit from the high(16kHz).
Bass - Boost 30-40Hz , Cut 70-140Hz , Boost 250-800Hz and cut the high till it sounds good for you.
the boost & cut process is btw 0-5 db's.
here is the sine wav we did with the boost&cut
Boost = -- --
0db = ---------
Cut = _ _ _
Now, Image 2 sine waves, one is the kick and the other is the bass and cross them.(-:
Kick - _--_--_--
Bass---_--_--_--_
and then use compressor to get better image.
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energytick
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
52
Posted : Jul 22, 2006 21:41
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Kick - Boost 50-100Hz , Cut 450-630Hz , Boost 1500-2500kHz and cut abit from the high(16kHz).
Bass - Boost 30-40Hz , Cut 70-140Hz , Boost 250-800Hz and cut the high till it sounds good for you.
Man...u R so misleading pepole!!
First, It is recommended not to boost EQ, especially In the most important aspect of the track, wich is the Kick bass...
Second, leaving frequencis of 2Khz+ in the kick will make it too powerfull and punchy, that area is for leads only.
Boosting the bass @ 30-40 hz will make it SO MUDDY, it's redicoulus.
third, Posts like this R misleading because every kick needs it's own Eq treatment and every bass deservs the same attention.
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Adrenal Mode
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
308
Posted : Jul 22, 2006 22:27
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the eqing is only to shape the sound man.
i only posted range of freq's that youll be able to see my point about the "sine waves", use your own freq to create your balance
first thing is to use your ears not to cut or boost to much.
use COMPRESSOR after the shaping, the eqing is only to create balance btw the waves
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shachar
Basic
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
402
Posted : Jul 23, 2006 00:38
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Quote:
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On 2006-07-22 21:41, energytick wrote:
Kick - Boost 50-100Hz , Cut 450-630Hz , Boost 1500-2500kHz and cut abit from the high(16kHz).
Bass - Boost 30-40Hz , Cut 70-140Hz , Boost 250-800Hz and cut the high till it sounds good for you.
Man...u R so misleading pepole!!
First, It is recommended not to boost EQ, especially In the most important aspect of the track, wich is the Kick bass...
Second, leaving frequencis of 2Khz+ in the kick will make it too powerfull and punchy, that area is for leads only.
Boosting the bass @ 30-40 hz will make it SO MUDDY, it's redicoulus.
third, Posts like this R misleading because every kick needs it's own Eq treatment and every bass deservs the same attention.
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actually, freq` above 2khz are quite good for a kick. try to boost a bit at 10khz to add a little crisp. 2kz do add punch but whats wrong with a kick that punch?
on the bass issue i usually high-pass around 30-40hz.
to clear a bit the bass try to narrow band cut at around 125hz
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Psyjinx
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
35
Posted : Jul 23, 2006 06:46
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Maybe stating the obvious but make sure the kick is tuned to the bass. Also route the kick and bass to a mono group and put a touch of compression on it. There are no rules for eq, every case is different. You shouldn't need too much eq and compression for the kick, if you do maybe you need to use another sample... |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jul 23, 2006 14:26
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i used to think there are "magic" freqs.. but its not like this.
evry sound need his own treatment .
all of your posts are wrong if i use diffrent patch .. and there was no patch discussion first?
where you come up with "rules" like this ?
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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