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Audio track modulation with another track
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 10:40
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texmex - but rhino allows u 2 modulate any generators 2gethr, after envelopes, modulations & everything has been applied, so it must b possible 2 fm 2 audio tracks 2gethr without delay.
dont u think? |
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texmex
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 11:50
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bukboy, I don't have rhino, but I looked into the user manual. It has no aux in but the samples must be loaded into it. This means that it can see all of the samples anytime and therefore "look into the future". This makes FM possible.
But you cannot drive external audiotracks/vst's into it. Correct me if I'm wrong... |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 12:17
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correct, it doesnt have inputs but the waves it creates can b ridiculously complex & cascaded, so I dont really think that it would look ahead for every fm operation based on the last sequence of 10.
rhino has a matrix like fm7 where everything can modulate everything else in real time. I dont think that look ahead is used.
But then I must give a disclaimer that I dont really know what mathematical function frequency modulation performs when its not a sine carrier or modulator.
The whole curiosity started 4 me when I heard duran durans come undone, & the beggining lead guitar has spectral elements of the bass line, which I find very interesting. Or maybe Im halucinating? |
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texmex
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 13:07
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Well, if you don't understand the frequency modulation, I suggest you grab a book/tutorial and learn it.
But for short, only the carrier (the wave/oscillator being modulated) needs lookahead. The modulator can be any wave imaginable, the current amplitude of the wave will tell the amount of modulation.
simple sin FM: sin(F1 * t + M*sin(F2 * t))
F2 * t is monotonic while F1 * t + M*sin(F2 * t) go M units ahead or M units behind... because we know how sin looks like in the future, it's not a problem.
Replace the modulator with waveform and it will be sin(F1 * t + M*f(t)). Now f(t) is accessed monotonic fashion, no lookahead. f(t) amplitude will affect the pitch of outer sin (carrier).
But if you replace the outer sin (carrier), it will look like f(t + M*sin(F2 * t)). now the inner sin (modulator) will affect the pitch of the f() and if t * M*sin(F2 * t) ever is greater than t (as it is with sin()>0), we'll need samples from the future.
I hope my crude explanations make any sense, feel free to ask more. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 13:15
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have 2 breakout my old comms book, will check it out sat morning. Thanks dood. Out of curiosity what do u do for a living?
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Drunken Monk
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 13:25
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yeap dayjob suxx!  but what can we do...?!
(i m a web administrator)
 +-+talking with ali3ns around the universe+-+
mit [muzik industry tunez] |
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texmex
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 15:13
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-08 13:15, bukboy wrote:
have 2 breakout my old comms book, will check it out sat morning. Thanks dood. Out of curiosity what do u do for a living?
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I'm doing degree in cs, doing freelance coding stuff and currently a part-time job. And I make pc game with couple of friends on my "freetime". Put making music/programming audio soft somewhere between all that  and you? |
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EYB
Noized
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111
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 15:27
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next days there will be a fm spiralator FX version
than u can use it to fm/ringmod two audiosources or 1 audiosource + 1 osc for example
peace
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 16:43
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thanks 4 spiralator tip.
Im an elec eng. mostly doing embedded software. helicopter avionics.
Nothing special really, most complex maths Ive done after tertiary education is addition + subtraction.
Music competes with girlfriend for time.started playing guitar + piano long time ago. Only got involved in electronic music a couple of years ago when I saw that a pad comes from a vst synth.(didnt know it b4 then ) |
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texmex
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 16:57
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-08 15:27, EYB wrote:
next days there will be a fm spiralator FX version
than u can use it to fm/ringmod two audiosources or 1 audiosource + 1 osc for example
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care to explain how you'll implement the audiosource as carrier? using delay?...
thanks |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
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2849
Posted : Sep 8, 2005 17:16
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@bukboy i have no girlfriend at the moment but to less time for music too, - need girlfriend and time expander
@texmex two audiosources via left and right channel, so u use it at fx and send to audio sources to it, one panned 100% left the other 100% right, like some vocoders work
Peace
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texmex
Started Topics :
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Posted : Sep 8, 2005 17:33
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-08 15:27, EYB wrote:
next days there will be a fm spiralator FX version
than u can use it to fm/ringmod two audiosources or 1 audiosource + 1 osc for example
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care to explain how you'll implement the audiosource as carrier? using delay?...
thanks |
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14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
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11
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797
Posted : Sep 8, 2005 18:11
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I got an envelope follower for my modular so I can use a (mono unfortunately, only one input on the module) audio source as a carrier to modulate with the simple basic saw, square, tri, sine waveforms. Pretty mad and uncontrollable dissonant sounds if the modulation amount is high, since the VCOs always drift a tiny bit
It can add a nice "metallic" texture to the sound if used sensibly though.
Ring modulating percussion with a VCO is my favourite and most used patch for rythmic weird stuff.
Me>You |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 9, 2005 16:03
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ive read the reaktor manual & looked through the macro appendices. Looks like only the sampler macros perform fm operations with modulating audio inputs. Consistent wif what texmex says.
hmmmmm.
I wonder what the raw algorythm 4 performing fm looks like. not being skeptical Texmex, just tryna understand. Well maybe a little skeptical. thats coz Eng makes u a cynical skeptic. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Sep 12, 2005 12:12
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