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Audio Myths & DAW Wars
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 4, 2011 17:30
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On 2011-04-04 17:27, Shiranui wrote:
I know trance tends to sound bad indoors because the ceiling causes the highs to sound very harsh/"shriek"-like
Perhaps main acts know this and pick their tracks/mix them to compensate?
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nah i dont think ,i asked to some acts that tour a lot and they told me it s not really possible to predict how a pa will sound, it s very different from place to places. imo a lot just concenctrate on getting a good sound in their studio that will translate ok on many place.
if you mix your sound for a pa and place to sound great , it will probably compromise the sound at the same time when it s played at a different place.just getting a right balance should be enought. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Apr 4, 2011 18:49
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No one mixes/produces with the mindset of 'oh im going to play in this room' - or at least, no one that I know or have heard of. They produce it the best as they can given their monitoring/treatment situation and then hopefully get it mastered in a way that it sounds as good as it can on all possible systems.
Got into a discussion yesterday after break down for our party on saturday and two of our crew members were very adamant about being able to tell the difference between mp3 and wav..and no, they haven't done double blind testing of it.
We're doing a fundraiser dinner for a bunch of people, and we're going to have a little game for the dinner where we start off at 320 vs wav and keep going down in MP3 bitrate to see at what point people CAN tell the difference.
I wager no one will be able to tell up until 192. MAYBE someone will be able to tell the difference then. Will report results back here.
I would think that multiple 15 mp3 15 wav tests with 20-30 people (most of which are going to be trance veterans of 10+ years, with a smattering of producers) would be enough to put this to rest 
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Drunken Monk
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
427
Posted : May 4, 2011 06:45
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any results from the test will?
i too believe that 320 vs wav is hard to tell.. even 256. Other statements like "the X known artist sounds better than the kid next door" is just placebo and/or just better production.
+-+talking with ali3ns around the universe+-+
mit [muzik industry tunez] |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : May 4, 2011 12:42
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Quote:
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On 2011-04-04 18:49, willsanquil wrote:
No one mixes/produces with the mindset of 'oh im going to play in this room' - or at least, no one that I know or have heard of. They produce it the best as they can given their monitoring/treatment situation and then hopefully get it mastered in a way that it sounds as good as it can on all possible systems.
Got into a discussion yesterday after break down for our party on saturday and two of our crew members were very adamant about being able to tell the difference between mp3 and wav..and no, they haven't done double blind testing of it.
We're doing a fundraiser dinner for a bunch of people, and we're going to have a little game for the dinner where we start off at 320 vs wav and keep going down in MP3 bitrate to see at what point people CAN tell the difference.
I wager no one will be able to tell up until 192. MAYBE someone will be able to tell the difference then. Will report results back here.
I would think that multiple 15 mp3 15 wav tests with 20-30 people (most of which are going to be trance veterans of 10+ years, with a smattering of producers) would be enough to put this to rest
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There are guys that get pains from hearing mp3s - this is not a joke.Our lecturer cannot hear it and lots of other music experts.There is a lot of science meanwhile that explains that we work more with brain while hearing mp3s and force it to fish out the rest like a residual effect.. this is the truth..Which means this is stress for our brain aso. Our generation changes slowly ..liek everything with it habits..so in your test I guess no one will tell you the difference,since the kids and even the most youg people nowadays hardly know what a wav is for them mp3 is standard .. also it is more a test for expiriencing hears,than usual party goers that would be atleast more interesting imo. Hearing out 192 should be no problem though...or its sth not ok imo.
WAv is also at any case HEALTHIER also for intelligence  there are tests ,scientific tests that proves that solving math tasks is a hard game while hearing mp3s in comparison with wav and there is really a lot of stuff that is already prove why wav is a goodie and mp3 actaually crap and pain for your brain.
I also hear mostly -unfortunately- mp3 because of less mbs and its priviliges only in this direction but hearing wav is always nicer I also believe I can hear it out always - with atleast a bit better speakers or headphones.However wav is too big hopefully some kinda new format codec will appear that is losless but needs not that much ..mbs I mean.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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OverloadPsystem
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
37
Posted : May 4, 2011 13:39
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if i use my songs on the test i can say what of these songs are in mp3 but with random song i cant know that.
Moreover, i know it does not make sense but I hear difference between 44,100 and 48,000 mainly with hithat. o_O
Psychologists effect?
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mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1785
Posted : May 4, 2011 15:14
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its hard to say what is and isnt psychological...
Just from statistics, when converting WAV to mp3 there has to be something lost, either that, or there is data in the WAV that isnt audible, or isnt containing audio, which nonetheless takes up room on a hdd. Thats just the logic perspective.
Personally from my own experiences, and ahem, 'experiences', higher quality audio tends to stick out more as 'wow'-able, for lack of better terms  Could have been in the mind.
To me the question is just, is it enjoyable, if yes, good. If enjoyment is had from 128kbps mp3, good.
But Ill keep on outputting whatever I can at 32bit FP 88.2khz.
(I guess, from what I understand, the conversion from 96khz to say CD audio 44.1, since it isnt a straight halving, can cause artifacts, or so Ive been told, Ive downsampled 48khz to 44.1 and had artifacts, but it was mp3 to mp3 so that could have had something to do with it too. Anyway I use 88.2 cuz 44.1 is just half of it and theres not much noticable difference between it and 96khz. I guess 48 and 96 are 'dvd-audio' range or something.)
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 4, 2011 23:38
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everyone who is saying that wavs vs mp3s sound better is biased by their own assumptions on that matter.
Do the test.
You will fail it. If you don't, congratulations you win but it still remains a fact that 99.9999% of people on earth will not be able to tell the difference. If you can't tell, you can't tell. Higher quality audio tends to stick out? That is a logical fallacy.
There are guys that get pains from hearing mp3s? Prove it. Sure, the guy who makes the Funktion One rails against MP3s but I would like to see him or anyone else complete the test successfully.
Anyone saying anything regarding mp3 vs wav vs flac etc etc is talking out of their ass unless they have done the blind test.
I have left the organization that was doing the fundraiser so that test will probably not happen :\
The wow factor comes from the music, not the file format. It comes from the sick sounds and the producer's technical/musical ability.
WAV is healthier for intelligence? Super hippy bullshit unless you can link to something real.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Midnight Sun
ProtoDrive
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
529
Posted : May 5, 2011 08:33
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[/quote]
There are guys that get pains from hearing mp3s - this is not a joke.Our lecturer cannot hear it and lots of other music experts.There is a lot of science meanwhile that explains that we work more with brain while hearing mp3s and force it to fish out the rest like a residual effect.. this is the truth..Which means this is stress for our brain aso. Our generation changes slowly ..liek everything with it habits..so in your test I guess no one will tell you the difference,since the kids and even the most youg people nowadays hardly know what a wav is for them mp3 is standard .. also it is more a test for expiriencing hears,than usual party goers that would be atleast more interesting imo. Hearing out 192 should be no problem though...or its sth not ok imo.
WAv is also at any case HEALTHIER also for intelligence there are tests ,scientific tests that proves that solving math tasks is a hard game while hearing mp3s in comparison with wav and there is really a lot of stuff that is already prove why wav is a goodie and mp3 actaually crap and pain for your brain.
I also hear mostly -unfortunately- mp3 because of less mbs and its priviliges only in this direction but hearing wav is always nicer I also believe I can hear it out always - with atleast a bit better speakers or headphones.However wav is too big hopefully some kinda new format codec will appear that is losless but needs not that much ..mbs I mean.
[/quote]
Hmm I dont believe that, but can you share us the link to those scientific tests??
ProtoDrive https://soundcloud.com/protodrive |
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Midnight Sun
ProtoDrive
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
529
Posted : May 5, 2011 08:35
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : May 5, 2011 10:46
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I also have alot of trouble believing your statement timetraveller. Any info to back it up?
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 5, 2011 18:53
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*takes a hit*
yah bro, MP3s splice your chromosomes and harm your DNA! They also produce bad energy that only the most pro-baba crystals can dissipate - and you must not be wicked, which you certainly are if you're using MP3s
I heard it on the *internet*! It must be true!
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Midnight Sun
ProtoDrive
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
529
Posted : May 5, 2011 21:08
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Quote:
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On 2011-05-05 18:53, willsanquil wrote:
*takes a hit*
yah bro, MP3s splice your chromosomes and harm your DNA! They also produce bad energy that only the most pro-baba crystals can dissipate - and you must not be wicked, which you certainly are if you're using MP3s
I heard it on the *internet*! It must be true!
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+1 
ProtoDrive https://soundcloud.com/protodrive |
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greenball
Inactive User
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
47
Posted : May 5, 2011 22:17
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Quote:
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On 2011-05-04 23:38, willsanquil wrote:
everyone who is saying that wavs vs mp3s sound better is biased by their own assumptions on that matter.
Do the test.
You will fail it. If you don't, congratulations you win but it still remains a fact that 99.9999% of people on earth will not be able to tell the difference. If you can't tell, you can't tell. Higher quality audio tends to stick out? That is a logical fallacy.
There are guys that get pains from hearing mp3s? Prove it. Sure, the guy who makes the Funktion One rails against MP3s but I would like to see him or anyone else complete the test successfully.
Anyone saying anything regarding mp3 vs wav vs flac etc etc is talking out of their ass unless they have done the blind test.
I have left the organization that was doing the fundraiser so that test will probably not happen :
The wow factor comes from the music, not the file format. It comes from the sick sounds and the producer's technical/musical ability.
WAV is healthier for intelligence? Super hippy bullshit unless you can link to something real.
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prove something yourself, instead of blabbering on about this test of yours.
im sorry the organization kicked you out, dem statistics and dat result would've been cool! |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 5, 2011 23:16
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Not that it matters, but getting kicked out != voluntarily leaving. I agree, the results would have been interesting.
"Blabbering" is posting your own unfounded, unproven assumptions about something that is incredibly easy to test for yourself.
I've proven this to myself many times. I can't tell the difference. I'm pretty convinced that no one can. The burden of proof is not on me, but on the people who say that Wavs are "more healthy" or that they can tell the difference...or that mp3s make it harder to do math problems? Wtf is that bullshit? Links please.
The burden of proof is on those who make claims that are at odds with logic - not the other way around. Countless people (both experts and non) have been unable to tell the difference. I've never *once* read or heard of *any* person who has succesfully been able to tell the difference in a testing environment that is free of bias.
This is not 'my test' - it's basic logic and science. Something the psy scene is pretty allergic to most of the time it seems.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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loki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
429
Posted : May 6, 2011 05:12
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actually, imo much of this 'wav is better and i can tell' probably comes from what is researched and termed 'post-purchase rationalization.'
this is the same pattern of thought that causes you to fix your shitty comptuter when it would be cheaper to buy a new one, and to convince yourself desperately that your Virus TI Keyboard purchase was a better expenditure of money than NI Komplete, Omnisphere, Logic Pro 9, a Korg Radias and a new pair of secondary reference monitors... simply because you already spent money on it.
i'm willing to bet that most people who say '.wav is better and i can tell' have .wav libraries and have already spent money and effort getting storage space or whatever for all that, or effort burning all those wavs onto many, many, many cds for djing, or whatever.
post-purchase rationalization. enjoy looking that up. your brain is funny 
Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room. ~Kurt Vonnegut
www.soundcloud.com/mixyott |
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