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Audio Myths & DAW Wars
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 19:58
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imo the difference can be hard to spot and finding wich one sound better when it s properly encoded is even harder but it might depend the tracks...
in a test i would not be surprised some like more the mp3 beeing used to listen to it more than wav , it could influence the choice who know.
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 20:05
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Quote:
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On 2011-04-01 19:53, aciduss wrote:
I have several CDs both in wav and in mp3 and i know the difference between them. I used to dj with wav only... mixing a wav track to an mp3 has that lowdrive effect, you switch the low band knobs and the mp3 bass is weaker.
Why do you think mp3 is cheaper at beatport?
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Do you know the difference between them because you...know which one is which maybe?
Have you done BLIND tests? If not, your knowledge biases you.
I only play FLAC files if I can because I'd rather err on the side of quality even if I can't hear it, but I occasionally use a 320 mp3 and I notice no difference.
I would guess that the reason mp3 is cheaper is because it is smaller of a file to host and that people will pay for it. I personally think its really dumb to have a different pay-scale for each level.
 If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 20:10
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yes would not be surpised your mind play tricks,we tried it already on this forum , on the material and how it was encoded it was pure luck to find wich is which. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 20:59
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Quote:
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On 2011-04-01 18:01, aciduss wrote:
Sorry but any serious DJ would notice mp3 / wav difference.
Big system (PA), Nice monitors, Nice hedfons...
Perhaps your average listener will not notice the difference in quality but would know something is better when WAV or 24bit Live is being played.
This is one of the reasons why big names on parties sound much better than your next block local djs and amateurs. Makes you come out from your tent and say "who the fck is playing now?"
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well over 1000's of people did blind tests in studios and normal rooms pa and small car speakers say something else..
i did blind test and got out of 4 options X 4 songs - 2 i could find the wav other 2 i guessed the 320 as wav. 128 sounded crappy thats true.. not to strat talk about convertion program and setting that makes all the diffrence from good mp3 to bad one
this artist that isnt local amateur dj enjoy your stupid brain that fall to the trap of knowing its that famous guy.. thinking he is something else then your neighbour
(stupid like mine and everyone nothing personal there)
it all comes down to placebo , and some artists know to use this stupidity in brain by talk alot and advertise until it sounds better.. enough proofs for that around 
the video i posted is very very long i know but anyone interested in this subject can learn alot from it , 2cm bass traps being sold @ 500$ is stupid joke but people pay for placebo apparently
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 21:10
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320 MP3 sounds good, but -V0 variable bit rate mp3 sounds just as good and takes up less space.
Only problem is certain mp3-playing hardware (like earlier cdjs, 200 etc) don't like VBR mp3s |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 21:16
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Honestly, is space an issue for anyone at this point?
HD space is cheap as dirt. I mean, if you had your entire library in Wav it'd be one thing, but FLAC is like 500 megs or so per album?
on a 500 gig harddrive (which is pretty standard in laptops these days) you could fit 1,000 albums.
I mean, if I'm storing tracks on a phone or a small ipod or something then yeah I convert down to VBR but otherwise I just leave it.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 21:25
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I think FLAC decoders are not as high-performance as MP3 decoders (decoding FLAC usually takes more CPU and memory than decoding MP3). This is not because of the FLAC format but just because no one has worked hard on writing high performance FLAC decoders yet.
I honestly wish there were a standard way to tag wav files... that's the only real reason I don't just use wav, there's no metadata. |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 21:51
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I didnt read all.Just wanted to say the difference between mp3 and pcm wav is huge as a big fuck.Even on cheapest speakers there is a difference.Mp3 is a pain in the arse to any music analysing ears.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 22:47
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"I didn't read - I'm just going to spout an opinion regardless of what has been said in the thread, even if the stuff that's been posted in the thread sofar makes my post look stupid"
Translated
Also, it may be true that playing FLAC takes more CPU than Wav or MP3..I would'nt know. But then again, I have no problems with CPU on my bargain laptop from last years models playing as many full tracks as I can cohesively mix together.
Again - some things just don't matter anymore. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 22:52
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to hear the difference you need at least 60 euro par meter balanced cable and not god plated please, it s less conductive. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 22:55
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No, to hear the difference you need to be superhuman.
If you do a blind test on a bunch of files and you can tell the difference, then grats you're godly. All the rest of us though can't tell.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 23:01
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From a thread by the same name as this one in another subforum....
An experiment -
Render the same ~5 seconds of a project to a 320 kbps mp3 file and 16 Bit 44.1 kHz wav (CD format), then make 30 A vs B blind comparisons. This means you are not to know whether your helper is playing the mp3 or wav file to you. You should also avoid eye contact with them and receive no feedback on how well you are doing until the experiment is completed. The helper should write down a list of 30 comparisons randomizing the order to play them to you (wav vs mp3 or mp3 vs wav), they should ensure that you receive 15 mp3 vs wav and 15 wav vs mp3 trials, 30 in total in a mixed up sequence. You don't need to do them all at once, if you need a break do so, but don't confer with your helper about how you are doing. Your task is simply to identify the wav file (the better sounding one!). In order to convince a scientist, with a high degree of confidence you can tell them apart, you need to identify the wav file at least 20 times out of 30. Our untrained monkey fresh from his 24 Bit 96 kHz experiment will correct identify the wav file 15 times (chance). Surely, as mp3 is inferior to CD format, you can beat 20 correct identifications or at least the untrained monkey?
If you can pass this test, congrats then you can properly identify the wav. I am EXTREMELY skeptical that you can do this.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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bandarlog
Bandarlog
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
809
Posted : Apr 1, 2011 23:29
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From a good old flstudio vs. the rest discussion right into an mp3 vs. wav 'you-can't-hear-the-difference-yes-I-can-cause-my-ears-beat-yours'-discussion...
All we need now is a hardware vs. software discussion and we'll finish our 'souper' with a creamy analog vs. digital bashing 
I think the whole discussion is a waste of time. There are so many factors involved in the choice or persistency in a choice of a DAW that a possible 0.3% improvement of your sound is neglectable along the way. Drinking a beer less or more probably has more influence on your music than the possible difference in sound.
http://www.soundcloud.com/bandarlog
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/bandarlog-memoirs-of-the-moment |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Apr 2, 2011 00:46
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Quote:
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On 2011-04-01 22:47, willsanquil wrote:
"I didn't read - I'm just going to spout an opinion regardless of what has been said in the thread, even if the stuff that's been posted in the thread sofar makes my post look stupid"
Translated
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bullshit  its not just an opinion it's common fact.Hearing mp3 is forcing brain but well however - you know it better regarding to your expert opinions
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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Posted : Apr 2, 2011 00:54
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Your 'common fact' has been rebuked many, many times by actual experts - I am not one of them, but I trust their opinion. I also get the same results as them. Just because you think something makes logical sense does not make it a 'common fact' - it may in fact be a misconception that you have that you haven't bothered checking into properly.
Are you telling me that you have run the above posted test and come out with over 20/30 correct?
If so, I concede that you can tell the difference and congratulations to you.
Until then, I remain confident that human beings cannot detect the difference between a 320 mp3 and a Wav - I can't even tell the difference between 240 and Wav, and probably 192 as well.
As bandarlog said, this whole thing is pretty pointless. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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