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Attack and Release times.
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in-human
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
28
Posted : Feb 4, 2007 05:05
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Apart from using your ears, is there some sort of equation depending on the BPM of the track to workout attack and release times for each crossover channel on a multi-band compressor?
e.g using it in the mastering stage.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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8087
Posted : Feb 4, 2007 16:12
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i don t think cause compressors don t have the same attack and release time and knee... and you can use some settings to give more attack to the sound or some to kill more the dynamic.... so a equation would be useless. |
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in-human
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
28
Posted : Feb 6, 2007 03:27
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Can anyone recommend starting points for attack and release times for the different bands of the Waves Lin MB? (for Mastering)
This would be very helpful…….Thx.
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Feb 6, 2007 07:33
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I wouldn't use a multiband compressor for mastering as a general rule. It can be used to fix broken mixes but I am assuming that you mean to master your own stuff, right? If so, you are better of fixing things in the mix rather than using a multiband compressor.
Also, if you use a multiband compressor, you really have to tweak it to the material which means that you really have to hear exactly what it is doing and base the settings on that. There is no catch-all quick setting that you can use and be guaranteed it will actually improve the mix. More likely than not, a multiband compressor will make it sound worse.
UnderTow
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in-human
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
28
Posted : Feb 6, 2007 09:09
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-06 07:33, UnderTow wrote:
I wouldn't use a multiband compressor for mastering as a general rule. It can be used to fix broken mixes but I am assuming that you mean to master your own stuff, right? If so, you are better of fixing things in the mix rather than using a multiband compressor.
Also, if you use a multiband compressor, you really have to tweak it to the material which means that you really have to hear exactly what it is doing and base the settings on that. There is no catch-all quick setting that you can use and be guaranteed it will actually improve the mix. More likely than not, a multiband compressor will make it sound worse.
UnderTow
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Thx for reply.
I’m not talking about settings that will ‘guarantee improvement’. I'm looking for a ‘starting point’ for attack and release times for each band. As you would receive when opening a preset on th LIN MB.
Then adjust/fine tune to what sounds best from these settings.
From my experience slapping the LIN MB over my mix seems to tighten everything up and give clarity to the mix. Also from having a couple of tracks mastered with Pro’s they also are using a LIN MB.
…… am I missing something here?
But hey ……. I’m learning, and open to new methods.
Lets say I have my mix as good as I am capable of getting it.
O.K. so what do you recommend for a quick master……………… L3?
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Feb 6, 2007 10:16
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for mastering i don t know but to make the track loud as a mastered one i use the Sonalksys in soft knee for very smooth compression and then voxengo elephant limiter. |
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in-human
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
28
Posted : Feb 7, 2007 03:25
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Thanks for the advice!
Can anyone else comment on preferably not using Multi-band compression on your finale mix.
I guess its up to personal choice.
I’m very interested in hearing some other opinions.
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Raoul V
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
583
Posted : Feb 7, 2007 10:23
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well, if you dont want any multiband compression, then just a lil eq and maximiser like the waves final plug.. or l2/l3... should be enough to atleast make it playable at a gig... i think anyways.. |
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in-human
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
28
Posted : Feb 7, 2007 13:23
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-07 10:23, Raoul V wrote:
well, if you dont want any multiband compression, then just a lil eq and maximiser like the waves final plug.. or l2/l3... should be enough to atleast make it playable at a gig... i think anyways..
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You are missing the point here brother…
I prefer to use a Multi-band compressor on my mixes.
I’m just surprised at the comment, of not using one as a 'general rule' for mastering... that Undertow has kindly stated.
I’m getting better results using the Lin MB, than not having a Multi-band compressor in the mastering chain.
So I guess I will continue this practice.
Big Up.
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Feb 7, 2007 15:40
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in-human,
If you are getting better results with a multi-band compressor, why not try and address the individual sounds in a similar way.
For instance, if you look at your multiband comp and see that the lowest frequency band is very active, try sending your kick and bass to a bus (or group track) and applying a compressor there. This will give you more control on the kick and bass without affecting other instruments.
I usualy mix "into" a compressor on the main bus. I'll use an attack and release of arround 45 ms. This lets the transients through while adding a bit of density to the mix. Then you can limit or clip the loudest transients with a limiter or clipper (or both).
Also, alot of what determines loudness is the frequency balance of your mix. When you add the multiband comp to your mix, you are probably evening out the frequency distribution a bit. Try achieving the same results by carefully EQuing the individual sounds.
PoM mentions the Voxengo Elephant limiter. Check it out. It is cleaner than any of the Waves L series limiters and has some nice added functionality (DC filter, unlinked stereo mode, various limiting and clipping modes, etc). Also the price is much better. 
Also you could try some of the "analogue emulation" plugins that are out there. Tape emulation, tube emulation etc. I find they work best if you insert them on the stereo bus _before_ you start mixing. This means that every mix decision you make is based on the sound _with_ the effect applied.
I quite like the Voxengo Warmifier and the Voxengo Tape plugins for this. Mess arround a bit with them on an existing mix to hear what they sound like (although they won't sound 100% right as you didn't do the mix with them on). Once you find a sound you like, try doing your next mix with them on the main bus.
The idea here is that the slight distortion these plugins give will add a bit of density to your mix and make it sound louder. Also, the right kind of distortion gives us the _impression_ that there is more resolution to the sound. Isn't our brain amazing?
UnderTow |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Feb 7, 2007 20:04
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For me... when I master I like to use the LinMB, as multiband compression before the limiting stage tends to make the limiting itself less perceptible.
In terms of what I do, I start with the adaptive electro mastering preset - play through the track and then adjust the threshold to the negative equivalent of the peak values displayed.
After that I adjust the global threshold (with the adaptive setting on)
Then I tweak the global attack and release times...
And then tweak the individual attack and release times until the bass end and everything else both looks and sounds stable.
I then play through the whole track again and then correct the output in correspondence with the displayed output value.
It changes with every track.
However I use Voxengo Soniformer subtly before hand (it's a beast and can do alot of damage to a track so watch out!)
These are just two of the plugs in my mastering chain however.
In any case - bear in mind that I'm not a mastering expert in any way - I just want my music to sound good enough for live sets and DJ sets....
 www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Feb 7, 2007 20:19
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i don t use multiband compression so i don t know if it s true but someone told me plugins are not very good for that,filters crossover can add bad artifacts to the sound but if you have good results it s all good. |
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in-human
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
28
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 12:09
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Nice info Boyz…definitely some great advice there.
My usual method of production is sending kick and bass to a mono bus and slightly squashing with URS comp, sometimes side chaining the bass if needed.
Applying compression and EQ to all other tracks individually.
LIN MB on Master Output (electro preset) with equal gain settings in each band along with individual threshold settings applied for each band.
When I’ve finished the track I load up the master output with Waves Lin Broadband Eq HPF 40hz and LPF 20Khz. With a couple of boosts in the 6 – 12 Khz region. Then fine tuning the Lin MB……. this is when I have trouble with the Attack and release times.
Followed by Antares Tube then L2.
Finally giving the mix a fine tune.
I know the purists don’t like using inserts on the Master output, but I find I mix much better using them.
Next track I will try using a single band compressor instead.
Big Up!
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 18:41
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60/bpm = time of 1/4
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Feb 10, 2007 01:46
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Hmm... I'm not a big fan of the 20k lowpass in mastering - seems like no point... frequencies above 20k although not necessarily percieved IMO add to the richness of the track.
Highpass, yes - for headroom and to avoid muddy subs in music that relies on punchiness... but I tend to try and tune it to the fundamental of my bassline, as well as making sure I'm doing it with a linear phase filter.
Yeah... am also big fan of Voxengo stuff, haven't given the elephant a go yet, but will do...
Also... I wouldn't put the antares tube after the highpass in my mastering chain as the distortion can leave sub artifacts below the initial highpass leading to a more uncontrolled bass end.
Maybe that's what you want, but I personally wouldn't  www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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