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Atriohm and the directions of "dark" psy
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porko rosso
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
113
Posted : Oct 5, 2010 19:40
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dog-on! |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Oct 5, 2010 21:14
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On 2010-10-05 16:07, Maine Coon wrote:
When I hear sounds of a happy playground superimposed on machine-gun fire (real, not just a fast kick) with a backdrop of foreboding doombient pads, “super-positive” is not the first thing that comes to my mind.
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But... it's 'challenging'! The positive is there, you just have to let go and dig deeper silly!
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MR VOMERS
Datavore
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
2094
Posted : Oct 5, 2010 23:42
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On 2010-10-05 16:07, Maine Coon wrote:
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On 2010-10-05 05:50, cinderVOMIT wrote:
Black Hole Surfing music. Fast, Heady, Atmospheric trance. I also refer to the ambient as Slambient so i don't really try and label the whole "dark" thing too much. Sure it's challenging, as is the trance, but i wouldn't consider it dark.
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Exactly what I was trying to show. 
It’s very funny to see darkpsy producers trying very hard to disassociate themselves from anything “dark”. First Ocelot, now you. What is “Black Hole Surfing Music” if not a branch of “psycore”? Psy Schranz, basically. It’s original and interesting, as it relies more on mangled samples and less on flying tzwick-tzwack. But it’s still a subset of machine-gun darkpsy.
Slambient can go either way, but at least some of it is dark ambient (“Love and War”, for example, is “nightmarebient”). I understand your need to distinguish your work from the "mainstream" dark ambient, a derivative of depressive black metal. But it’s still a similar idea. Well, like I said – at least it can go either way in terms of mood. Slambient it is then. 
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The intentions in all of everything i've written and am writing is all super positive.
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When I hear sounds of a happy playground superimposed on machine-gun fire (real, not just a fast kick) with a backdrop of foreboding doombient pads, “super-positive” is not the first thing that comes to my mind.
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well the super positive intentions even in Love and War (WAY TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Thanks the support btw! ) was myself working out all the negativity that i was seeing in the world, in the news, with my own eyes especially regarding all the war and oil shit etc etc..the positive part was the release of despair and hurt that I was feeling leading up to the production of that tune. OF COURSE it's not cuddle music lol, but i wouldn't consider it dark or evil....Dark to me = Evil...perhaps that's a big drastic miscommunication of my own perception but that's the way i look at it when i see that word, so i'm automatically going to say that my music trance/ambient/dub whatever would never truely be dark because i'm a very positive person. I like to beat the shit outta the dancefloor and give ppl a real mental workout, but it's all for the love of the trance!
I wouldn't lump me in a category with the ocelot guy, because i could not disagree with you if you wanted to call my music dark, because it is the way that it makes YOU feel, the way it should be interpreted so by all means, if you feel that i make dark music, then lump me on in the category, but for my own record and personal announcement, i do not believe that what i write can be considered dark or evil.
haha this may not make any sense at all so humor me or ignore me, but Black Hole Surfing music is that sound that makes you feel like you are surfing the tidal waves within the black hole trying not to get sucked in to it. Riding the waves of infinity, through maddening psychedelic frequencies
Main Coon...you rock. Thanks for always questioning. It makes people think.
 WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 00:10
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Yes, your “Black Hole Surfing” tunes actually sound happy sometimes. I was talking about the general style: atonal composition, psy effects, high BPMs – those are signatures of “latter days darkpsy”, aren’t they?
Anyway, I think most people here would agree that “darkpsy” is an unfortunate misnomer. A lot of “proper” and “forest” darkpsy is not intended to be dark. And a lot of “psycore” simply cannot be dark, even when a producer tries to make it that way.
Sorry, I somewhat confused the issues in my post. When talking about your “Black Hole Surfing” music, I referred to darkpsy as a genre, not the mood. When talking about dark ambient, I was actually talking about the mood of the music, rather than the genre (a derivative of black metal).
I understand the positive intentions you had when writing “Love and War” and the positive feelings you got when you were writing it. But its effect on me is positively (pun ) nightmarish. And I suspect that I am not unique in that regard.
While we are on a topic of slambient – I loved “Prehistoric Wonderland” 
Back to the main topic: that’s precisely what’s so appealing about Atriohm – it’s darkpsy that is not intended to be dark. It can take you to a dark place if you choose to go there but it doesn’t try to push you in that direction too hard. It even has some playfulness we’d expect from Suomi and not “serious business” like darkpsy. 
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 00:55
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Suomi is serious business!
*burp*
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Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 01:25
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haha, "Black Hole Surfing music", nice name.
" So ,what are you into?
I am into black hole surfing music
huh? "
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 02:19
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On 2010-10-06 00:55, rich wrote:
Suomi is serious business!
*burp*
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Totally! 
"Mmm... I'm concentrating on ... uh ... you know ... the space station" 
"Mmuuusic is viiibraation" 
"Shshshiva! Bom-bom-bom" 
Awesome seriousness!  |
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Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 03:17
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On 2010-10-06 00:10, Maine Coon wrote:
Back to the main topic: that’s precisely what’s so appealing about Atriohm – it’s darkpsy that is not intended to be dark. It can take you to a dark place if you choose to go there but it doesn’t try to push you in that direction too hard. It even has some playfulness we’d expect from Suomi and not “serious business” like darkpsy.
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As you said " that’s preciously what’s so appealing about Atriohm – it’s darkpsy that is not intended to be dark" (!!!!!)
This is the thing that can be disturbing ,there is lots of childish ,"black metal" ,evil wannabe dark psy who NOT,i repeat ,NOT is the same thing or will take you to the same "places",create emotions/vibes/energy ,inner travel etc, as acts like Atriohm and other quality ,psychedelic hard psytrance. They just want to be psychedelic.One of the sad thing is that some people dont see the difference.When they hear a fast bpm ,low octave base and not some full on notes they go "this is evil dark psy".Seems like some people wanna box everything into a "dark psy " map just because the tracks got a certain bpm,bass octave etc.
For me personally,as an example,i enjoy some artist that are called "dark psy" but i dont listen to horror psy and people wanting to do same black metal psy.I am not at all into that.And therefore i think it is sad and creates confusion to mix ( categorize ) acts like Atriohm with those i just mentioned.
I see that many people talk about "fight your fears " etc. Sure,that is a good thing.But that is just one thing,and i dont really see that as the most important thing.Is one supposed to fight ones fears everytime one listens to music that one can find scary? What happens when one has fighted the fears ,what else is there to fight then? Perhaps fighting the fears can be viewed like,"fight the guard that blocks the entrance to the " inner world ", to fight the fear of wanting control and understand the situation and to fight the fear of "me not being what i thought i was,instead me being a part of something larger", "that all of this is just an subjective illusion and the real reality is beyond what we know" and instead just ride on the psychedelic waves and see were they takes you.
I dont find Atriohm`s music scary at all,and i am quite sure that they had no such intentions.I think they just want to make deep and psychedelic music which makes the listener go inside oneself,explore the mind,get into a trance state etc.I cant see any kind of "evil" here just layers and layers of complex , mysterious and intelligent sound design.
But i can see what we call evil and dark in other so called dark psy acts were the producer has a clear intention of creating something evil.
Then what is evil ? ,how does evil sound ? I think those questions would belong more in the "Spirituality" section then here.
But very short ,when we already are at it.What evil is i would say is when the person gets seperated from the feeling or emotion/vibe/energy that unites us all,the thing that makes us feel empathy and connection with all living things.When one is cut off from that,then one could be evil.To be evil means to only think of oneself and what oneself wants to do instead of care about others.Just like a cancer cell in a body,the cell only care about the own cell and not the body.
I think that satan is a symbol for the ego and god is a symbol for the synchronization and connection between everything.That on the deepest plane of existence we are all one thing but on the surface we are all sorts of different things.
So this "knowing" or feeling of connection and compassion with life
(we see this in it`s most pure form when we are very young,when we get older we get more filled up by the ego,although it depends on which person we are talking about ,but generally it seems to work like that)
gets into battle with the ego.I think the Good vs Evil is a symbol of this.The inner war between our ego,me,my name ,what i want etc with a unpersonal unselfish feeling of belonging and connection with everything else.
The tricky part can be to integrate this two ones,to end the war and be at peace inside, instead of having this "two faced inner battle" thing.Good against bad.My raw ,hungry ego against my true being.I cant destroy me ego totally couse how could i then live,eat etc.I have to have some sort of ego but one could benefit from trying to merge this two ones.To integrate the illusion self (me,my body,my name etc) with our higher being,with our "true self".
Also hate and rage can be experienced as something evil,but then one has to remember that, that is something everyone can feel and sometimes it is good ( in most cases it is not).We need more love here on Terra,especially for nature.We need to feel the unification and belonging with all of creation,not just other humans.That emotion/energy is far to big to try to incapsule.I think that letting that emotion breach the barriers between everything and everyone is a part of the "psychedelic mission".If one want to define the psychedelic mission as something that will make us more mature and grow and take further steps into understanding and synchronizing with life.
back to the rage and hate issue,if someone attacks you and your family are you evil because you feel or act with rage towards that one to protect yourself and your family ?.Is a bear who is trapped trying to defend her offspring evil because she feels a strong rage towards those who is threating her and her child.It is all a question about why the emotions are there.We are all capable of feeling "evil" emotions when we need so to defends ourselfs and those around us etc.But as said,mostly, hate and rage is bad.
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Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
2082
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 03:17
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Some psychologist`s speak about the "shadow" self
( especially Carl Jung,which i by the way find very interesting ,and i would not be surprised if there are some others here who shares the interest for this great thinker )
which i think can be interesting when we talk about what we are talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_%28psychology%29
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The shadow may appear in dreams and visions in various forms, and typically 'appears as a person of the same sex as that of the dreamer'[8]. It is possible that it might appear with dark features to a person of any race, since it represents a distant and indiscriminate aspect of the mind. The shadow's appearance and role depend greatly on the living experience of the individual, because much of the shadow develops in the individual's mind rather than simply being inherited in the collective unconscious. Nevertheless some Jungians maintain that ' The shadow...contains, besides the personal shadow, the shadow of society...fed by the neglected and repressed collective values'[9].
Interactions with the shadow in dreams may shed light on one's state of mind. A conversation with the shadow may indicate that one is concerned with conflicting desires or intentions. Identification with a despised figure may mean that one has an unacknowledged difference from the character; a difference which could point to a rejection of the illuminating qualities of ego-consciousness. These examples refer to just two of many possible roles that the shadow may adopt, and are not general guides to interpretation. Also, it can be difficult to identify characters in dreams - 'all the contents are blurred and merge into one another..."contamination" of unconscious contents'[10] - so that a character who seems at first to be a shadow might represent some other complex instead.
Jung also made the suggestion of there being more than one layer making up the shadow. The top layers contain the meaningful flow and manifestations of direct personal experiences. These are made unconscious in the individual by such things as the change of attention from one thing to another, simple forgetfulness, or a repression. Underneath these idiosyncratic layers, however, are the archetypes which form the psychic contents of all human experiences. Jung described this deeper layer as "a psychic activity which goes on independently of the conscious mind and is not dependent even on the upper layers of the unconscious—untouched, and perhaps untouchable—by personal experience" (Campbell, 1971). This bottom layer of the shadow is also what Jung referred to as the collective unconscious.
'The shadow personifies everything that the subject refuses to acknowledge about himself' and represents 'a tight passage, a narrow door, whose painful constriction no one is spared who goes down to the deep well'[16]. If and when 'an individual makes an attempt to see his shadow, he becomes aware of (and often ashamed of) those qualities and impulses he denies in himself but can plainly see in others - such things as egotism, mental laziness, and sloppiness; unreal fantasies, schemes, and plots; carelessness and cowardice; inordinate love of money and possesseions -...[a] painful and lengthy work of self-education'[17].
The dissolution of the persona and the launch of the individuation process also brings with it 'the danger of falling victim to the shadow...the black shadow which everybody carries with him, the inferior and therefore hidden aspect of the personality'[18] - of a merger with the shadow.
Enantiodromia launches 'a different perspective. We begin to travel [up] through the healing spirals...straight up'[26]. Here the struggle is to retain awareness of the shadow, but not identification with it. 'Non-identification demands considerable moral effort...prevents a descent into that darkness'; but though 'the conscious mind is liable to be submerged at any moment in the unconscious... understanding acts like a life-saver. It integrates the unconscious'[27] - reincorporates the shadow into the personality, producing a stronger, wider consciousness than before. 'Assimilation of the shadow gives a man body, so to speak'[28], and provides thereby a launching-pad for further individuation. 'The integration of the shadow, or the realisation of the personal unconscious, marks the first stage of the analytic process...without it a recognition of anima and animus is impossible'[29]. Conversely 'to the degree to which the shadow is recognised and integrated, the problem of the anima, i.e., of relationship, is constellated'[30], and becomes the centre of the individuation quest.
Neveretheless Jungians warn that 'acknowledgement of the shadow must be a continuous process throughout one's life'[31]; and even after the focus of individuation has moved on to the animus/anima, 'the later stages of shadow integration' will continue to take place - the grim 'process of washing one's dirty linen in private'[32], accepting one's shadow.
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But also,quite generally speaking about "dark psy",it can be so,probably it is,that a low octave bass line and a fast BPM has a certain "main effect" on people.It is something,big,strong and fast and it can sound furious.
I think that when people get afraid of sounds they start to associate their fear with personal stuff.So play a track that some people will find scary and they will all be scared by their own personal stuff that they associate with the feeling that they experience through the music.So then it is not the music but their own fears that they associate with the music that they dont like.
Also,something new ,a bit "alien" in terms of being very different, from what one has experienced before can be scary just because it is so different.We all know that most people ,animals etc can be very frightened by something "very exotic" or something very different ,something one not are familiar with. And that can be good some times,one does not walk roads that one does not know is safe. But one can also miss many good things if someone is very afraid of everything different.Think of how the human evolution had been if some people never asked what is around the corner and went into different "path`s in the forest".I think that the feeling alone of something new and different in many cases can be something that people find scary.
Another thing i like with some acts like Atriohm is the creating of something new,well perhaps not the k-bbb one note approach in some tracks,nothing wrong with that though,i think it fits their sound structures very well, but i am thinking about the layers of sounds and the combination of them.It breaches new territory,gives birth to something new,creating new roads in the "forest".Instead of a copy it is something unique.
I like to see psytrance expanding,i like hearing new sound concepts,to hear sounds i dont have heard before and be amazed by the music.What i dont like (most of the times) , is to hear something that is new and i have not heard before but when i put on the music it feels like something i have heard 100000 times before.
But as said there is no right and wrong in peoples taste,just like there is no right and wrong in art or food taste.If people want to hear the same concepts being done again and again,sure,nothing wrong with that,but there will also be people who wants something new and that will carry on the sailing towards untouched lands.
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 04:39
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On 2010-10-05 11:52, disco hooligans wrote:
Off course it is...play a 140 tune at 150 BPM and everything is so much different.
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I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is a 10 bpm range is piss all with this kind of music. I'm guessing most main stages at psy parties won't start much lower than 140 so calling 150 too much of a stretch just sounds rediculous to me. |
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
8779
Posted : Oct 6, 2010 16:21
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On 2010-10-06 00:55, rich wrote:
Suomi is serious business!
*burp*
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yea, seriously serious!!!
Robomate!
We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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