Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2007 03:38
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You are sounding like some kind of religious fundamentalist.
Maybe I am , hehe. Dude call me Jehovah’s witness if you want, but lets not fool ourselves pretending that its ok to just do whatever we want as if our actions don’t affect others. You may argue that you need some meat in your diet, but you can’t argue much beyond that; like trying to justify a meat centered diet because to me . that is most of the time just bullshitting simply to justify the meat eating habit.
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Fact is, humans have eaten meat all over the world as a part of normal diet throughout recorded history.
But still, we just don’t need so much meat. So why take more when it can actually do a lot of harm? And most health experts agree that today at least in the first world countries most people eat by far, BY FAR, way to much meat. Fucking selfish or clueless.. Take you pick. Because even health wise is causing all types of problems such as heart disease, cancer, high cholesterol, etc
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Bhuddism, Jainism and Hinduism (for certain castes) are the only belief systems I know of that forbids meat. Everyone evererywhere else has been eating meat.
It’s not black and white. Take the Aztecs.. Yeah they weren’t precisely “officially” vegetarians; I mean they even consumed human flesh during some rituals. But their everyday diet was mostly VEGETARIAN with animal meat (including some insects) only consumed to compliment their mostly vegetarian diet. The point is we don’t need so much fucking meat; yeah the fact that most people don’t give a shit and won’t stop for a second to think about this is a different matter. But there is simply no excuse to eat so much meat, even if you could care less about the animals that you are killing unnecessarily it is also unhealthy and on top of it all is fucking up the planet because of the serious environmental implications.
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Fact is, it is normal in nature to eat other species, while it is comparatively uncommon for species to eat their own.
Fact is we are the only animals that use cars, play with computers, fly in jets, listen to trance and can consciously choose their diet. Hey I think that as animals we are like one in tens of millions of species that live in the planet that share these unique characteristics. So much for the common species argument.
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Fact is, I am more interested in eating things that taste good than in trying to live by fundamentalist morals.
But like it or not we affect others with your actions, so as we look to satisfy our own needs and pleasures it is also good to try and not take more than we need so we don't screw others in the process.
And trust me, I won’t blame a cheetah for eating a Gazelle.. they never take more than what they need.
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I care about stewardship of the enviromnment as a whole and protecting species from extinction.
What are you joking? The number one cause for the destruction of the world forests is cattle grazing. About 1000 species go extinct every year due to cattle grazing in the tropical rainforests alone. Which of course also is causing global warming and other massive environmental problems.
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I do not particularly care about the well being and happiness or right to live of individuals who are not of my species.
No offense but maybe that is, to some extent part of the problem. Although you get some point for trying to be honest about this.
Anak
Anakoluth
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Posted : Jun 22, 2007 11:25
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On 2007-06-20 19:35, Aluxe wrote:
^^Ha you almost make it sound like we are talking about your style of dancing. “everyone should feel comfortable with the way he / she chooses.. ”
Hey so if I choose to eat your family for dinner, should I feel comfortable because “its the way I choose ” ?
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Posted : Jun 22, 2007 13:52
vegitarianism is divine and there is nothing denying it BUT eating meat and fish is not bad either and not everyone does deeds of divinity , the only thing personally feel is there should be a balance and the source of meat should be compassion based rather being the butcher farms who have been feeding chikens and cows steroids and killing with disrespect. e.g. we dont mash our potato under our shoes so likewise ........................
And the hogging of meat for just the taste buds is not considered healthy nor is hogging vegitarian food so balance out and its all good ..........
how and what you eat is what you become
peace n light
@ Anak bro hope your brain snail is healthy again peace bro
To focus sometimes you need to spin hard on your soul's axis..... just don't ask how and what it means ;)
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2007 20:08
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What are you joking? The number one cause for the destruction of the world forests is cattle grazing. About 1000 species go extinct every year due to cattle grazing in the tropical rainforests alone. Which of course also is causing global warming and other massive environmental problems.
Actually most of the meat I eat isnt beef (I only eat it about once every 1-2 weeks) most of the rest is poultry, fish, shellfish and also pork and lamb. I try not to eat the same species of fish too often, and especially to go light on the ones that are overfished or raised in polluting farms like shark, swordfish and salmon. On average I probably consume about 4-6 oz of meat in a day, and I don't consider that particularly excessive. Last night I went all out and had 1/2 lb of deep fried squid with my pasta. It was real tasty
After your point, I am considering trying to buy only American raised beef because there are environmental controls here that would make me feel better about eating it (becuse its not the individual cow that I am concerned about)
Oh and about the Aztecs.. most of them were primarily vegetarians because they were DIRT POOR and living in cities. I would imagine that the upper classes got their fill of meat, human and otherwise.
Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2007 20:33
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BUT eating meat and fish is not bad either
But eating too much meat IS without a doubt BAD. Because it’s fucking up the planet, PERIOD. Meat eating is creating massive environmental problems, at every scale from local to global: Massive deforestation, loss of biodiversity, land degradation, climate change, air pollution, water shortage and water pollution. Wake up folks, livestock’s contribution to environmental problems is on a massive scale. So considering that, really, to eat excessive meat is just irresposnible to say the least. Either that or you are clueless about the reality behind it. Amigos there are simply not enough resources in the world to keep up with your meat habits. The fact is most people would be better off by reducing their meat intake by 90%, but if you can’t do that well at least reduce it by 10%. FOr instance, if Americans reduced their meat consumption by as little as 10% that would free enough land, water and energy to adequately feed 100 million starving people.
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2007 20:43
If that free land magically grew food that magically appeared in the starving peoples stomachs.
Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 22, 2007 22:45
I see what you are saying, like nothing is free. Though I think the point of the statistic is that with the resources used by the meat industry you can feed many more people if you use them instead to grow crops to feed humans.
-Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250
-Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000
TAS
Toxic Anger Syndrome
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268
Posted : Jun 23, 2007 08:49
Aluxe:
You can´t blame the persons that eat too much meat (and btw, what is too much meat?) on the climate changes.....
Take a good look upon the sky one sunny day.... do U know what that HUGE burning thing in the sky is? That is our cause of the "global warming" and this is just natures normal cycle. It happens and will happen whatever we do. Can´t understand ppl that freaks out on this global warming swindle that is just another political issue too make more money out of it and keeping the masses from looking at the "right" problems we have in our world today...
Wasn´t going to speak my mind in this issue, cause ppl can do whatever the fuck they want with their life.... but don´t give misleading "facts" and try to make the ppl that eat meat as one of the problems of the climate changes... that is just crazy talk...
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662
Posted : Jun 23, 2007 09:09
Quote:
On 2007-06-22 20:33, Aluxe wrote:
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BUT eating meat and fish is not bad either
But eating too much meat IS without a doubt BAD. Because it’s fucking up the planet, PERIOD. Meat eating is creating massive environmental problems, at every scale from local to global: Massive deforestation, loss of biodiversity, land degradation, climate change, air pollution, water shortage and water pollution. Wake up folks, livestock’s contribution to environmental problems is on a massive scale. So considering that, really, to eat excessive meat is just irresposnible to say the least. Either that or you are clueless about the reality behind it. Amigos there are simply not enough resources in the world to keep up with your meat habits. The fact is most people would be better off by reducing their meat intake by 90%, but if you can’t do that well at least reduce it by 10%. FOr instance, if Americans reduced their meat consumption by as little as 10% that would free enough land, water and energy to adequately feed 100 million starving people.
Thats what i said " hogging for taste buds is not healthy for the ecosystem . But meat cannot be avoided in colder places it is a necessity of survival .......... so not that all can go veggi but yes can restrain from the everyday binge .
To focus sometimes you need to spin hard on your soul's axis..... just don't ask how and what it means ;)
exotic
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 23, 2007 09:19
Quote:
On 2007-06-16 17:28, v.v2 wrote:
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On 2007-06-13 16:31, Anak wrote:
we DO need meat.
No flaming Anak, but could you point out, in today's world, exactly which ingredients or substances cannot be substituted through the right choice of vegetables and other supplements?
Taste?
Yes. beer and pork missing plug-in
Shaktycat
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Posted : Jun 23, 2007 14:41
Meat Industry & Global Warming:
Many leading environmental organizations, including the National Audubon Society, the WorldWatch Institute, the Sierra Club, and the Union of Concerned Scientists, have recognized that raising animals for food damages the environment more than just about anything else that we do.
Fortunately there is something you can do -- switch to a plant-based diet, or at the very least reduce your meat and dairy consumption.
1 - Factory farms produce massive amounts of dust and other contamination that pollutes our air. A study in Texas found that animal feedlots in the state produce more than 14 million pounds of particulate dust every year and that the dust "contains biologically active organisms such as bacteria, mold, and fungi from the feces and the feed."
2 - According to the nonprofit group Greenpeace, all the wild animals and trees in more than 2.9 million acres of rainforest were destroyed in the 2004-2005 crop season in order to grow crops that are used to feed chickens and other animals in factory farms.
3 - According to a 2006 UN report, the livestock sector causes more greenhouse gases worldwide than the entire transportation sector.
4 - Nitrous oxide is about 300 times more potent as a global warming gas than carbon dioxide. According to the U.N., the meat, egg, and dairy industries account for a staggering 65 percent of worldwide nitrous oxide emissions.
5 - According to the Environmental Protection Agency, the run-off from factory farms pollutes our waterways more than all other industrial sources combined. The EPA reports that chicken, hog, and cattle excrement have polluted 35,000 miles of rivers in 22 states and contaminated groundwater in 17 states.
6 - It takes 16 pounds of grain and 2,500 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat. One average meat eater could consume that pound of meat during a meal, while 16 people could have been fed on the grain it takes to produce that pound of meat.
7 - The meat industry causes more water pollution in the US than all other industries combined because the animals raised for food produce 130 times more excrement than the entire human population--86,000 lbs per second. A typical pig factory farm generates a quantity of raw waste equal to that of a city of 12,000 people.
8 - Every 2 seconds, a child starves to death somewhere in the world. Countries such as Ethiopia and some Central American countries use their farmland to supply the United States with cheap burgers instead of growing healthful grain foods for their own starving people.
9 - The livestock population of the US consumes enough grain and soybeans to feed more than 5 times its human population. 90% of all corn and 80% of all grains and beans grown in the US are used to feed livestock animals.
10 - 75 percent of U.S. topsoil has been lost to date, 85 percent of that loss is due to livestock rearing.
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Posted : Jun 23, 2007 20:33
Quote:
On 2007-06-21 06:54, Psycosmo wrote:
Bhuddism, Jainism and Hinduism (for certain castes) are the only belief systems I know of that forbids meat. Everyone evererywhere else has been eating meat.
Religious beliefs are simply concretisation of the needs of that time, and these three happen to be from tropical climates where there was enough vegetation to provide for biological needs. Please add Taoism to that list, and you see a complete picture. That's the entire east and half the world for you.
In colder climates, meat has been a necessity, and cultures were built around it. However, sufficient diet is now possible from non-meat reasources with the help of technology (yes, importing veggies burns petrol and creates a crabon imprint, but so does raising meat since they don't grow in the wild anymore).
But it is an issue of taste. People have gotten so used to the diet, that it is difficult to consider alternatives. To that, I say, atleast accept the fact. Because then we can move further. Just arguing for meat-eating otherwise is like the ciggarette companies insisting that smoking is a choice.
Taste can be substituted, as many recently turned vegetarians will tell you, you only have to try.
There is one MAJOR disjunt of the modern meat-eating world I want to point out - earlier, people ate meat coz it was necessary, so they didn't mind killing it personally. Today, we are pseudo meat-eaters. We don't want to see the cow killed - infact, we call it by impersonal, generic names like meat, beef and pork (not cow or buffalo or pig). When we see these animals in the wild, or in nature, we respect them - Does your mouth water when you see a buffalo or a pig in the wild? Do u imagine them on your plate?
A good idea would be to try killing one yourself...start with some small creature like a chicken, and then move on to the bigger ones. We go like wow man, you grew that spinach yourself!; but why not wowee that chicken you fed for all this while is now on my plate!?
What's wrong with someone else killing your meat, you may ask? That's not the point. The point is, why can't you ever dare do it yourself. Why should I? To know how it feels. Why should I feel for my food - just because it wails and cries and makes noises while it dies? Because we usually feel bad about taking lives, and that's the disjunt I am talking about.
v.v2
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Posted : Jun 23, 2007 21:08
If getting one home is a problem, check out your local abbatoir...they should be happy to have a trancer among them.
mk47
Inactive User
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Posted : Jun 24, 2007 16:24
furry little creatures taste good .. cuter = tastier ... mmm .. fried kittens
TAS
Toxic Anger Syndrome
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Posted : Jun 24, 2007 19:48
Shaktycat:
Didn´t find any scientific evidence about the climate changes because of people eating meat. Maybe I´m stupid but I really didn´t see any evidence. Just pictures and some words...
Those horrible pictures about how the animals were raised is just a way to get into ppl hearts. I´m sorry but I have seen to much on tv/documentaries etc and I know what kinda pictures/movies that are suppossed to get into ppl head. I don´t like these kinda mindwrenching videos... I wan´t pure facts that scientist´s presents... and I haven´t seen any scientist´s that take up this "problems" mentioned in that clip you added...
And all reports was from South and North America? Seems that the problems layes there then. I still don´t see the problem and the way my food, THE MEAT, destroys or make climate changes. I can choose wich farm my meat comes from, and I certenly don´t eat meat from other contries. That is just stupid... I buy my meat from a regular store here in my town but the meat comes from a local farmer a couple of miles from here. They don´t mass produce meat as many other companies does and the smaller the company is... the better they threat the animals cause they are dependent on it and need to get permission from health departments etc before they can start something like this...
Ppl should not stop eating meat because of some stupid farmers doesn´t know how to raise animals in a healthy way. it´s just walking money for them and I think that is a very sad thing. But not all farmers are like that. Some farmers really take care of their animals and must have them to survive for themself. This is the way of nature and a farmer is one of the oldest occupations...
So... the problem is the idiots that only wants to make money and does not care about the animals at all... that´s the source of this shit. And one thing that we as people can do is to buy meat etc from a local farmer. then you would not have these shit... but guess that´s harder in bigger countries then mine...
to just do whatever we want as if our actions don’t affect others. You may argue that you need some meat in your diet, but you can’t argue much beyond that; like trying to justify a meat centered diet because to me . that is most of the time just bullshitting simply to justify the meat eating habit.
