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Are you a CD buyer? (What's missing to make this product more stainable?)
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Oct 11, 2010 23:25
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YIDAM like i said in the last part of my previou post i havent mentioned a lot of things including mechanical rights (which is actually copyright costs in Greece named AEPI, in Israel ACUM, in France Sagem and so on).
MAINE COON we are talking about running a legal label here not getting involved in illegal business and actions so how pirates in Third World or advanced countries work is something that shouldnt be mentioned. After all pirates dont care about any expenses at all apart the expense of buying a blank cd and filling it with illegal downloaded music.
Yes Legal Internet Releases bypass the expenses of cd printing and cd distribution BUT there are some other issues to be considered like the credit card / paypal percentages for example. The biggest minus of internet releases though is the fact that a lot of people dont have a credit card or are afraid to use it for online purchases. Anyway how a legal label operates and whether cds are better or worst than digital downloads is another discussion. What i tried to make clear here is that in order to run a label and a release a cd out there in the market is much more expensive than some people think it is.
And i would like to repeat the following small paragraphs from my previous post to make things clear.
"""So far we have 3400 euros per release (one release in every three months like i said already).
This translates into 3.40 euros / 4.7 dollars per cd.
Keep in mind that no money have yet been payed to any artists or mechanical rights or bank transfers or taxes or VAT or distributors profit or promotion or anything else. """
If we sign 9 tracks for 300 euros each (average price of average artists since big names ask for 500 euros plus for a track) then we have 2700 euros for the music which means 2,7 euro up per cd unit which means we reached a total of 6,1 euros per cd unit and still we havent calculated things like mechanical rights or bank transfers or taxes or VAT or distributors profit or promotion.
6,1 euros is 8,5 dollars.
I guess i dont have to continue to explain how a cd reaches a price of 13-15 dollars in the market.
  Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1659
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 00:49
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^
No, you don't have to break it down in any more detail. Thanks for the explanation. |
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Mike A
Subra
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 08:30
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Well, DETOX covered most of it.
At Cronomi we don't have to pay 300€ per track since we don't have any big names in the small goa trance scene, but we still have to pay.
Some more stuff:
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2) You don’t print 1000 CDs. Instead, you advertise the release on your Web site well in advance, collect pre-orders and use them as a crude form of market research. Then you order an estimated number of CDs needed from the very same company Ektoplazm uses. Alex does not make any secret about where their CDs come from: the link to the company’s Web site is right there, and their pricing information is just another click away. To make a long story short: they will print any number of CDs – complete with a jewel case, artwork, and shrink wrap – for $1 each. They can even package it, put your company’s return address on the package and ship it to the customer (I don’t know the price of that – you can look it up). |
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That is cd duplication, not replication. Duplicated cd (laymen word's - cdr) are considered to be inferior quality to replicated (aka pressed cds or "silver back") cds. When you do replication, most plants will put at minimum at 1000 copies. It took me a while to find a UK based plant which will press 500. UK based to reduce shipping costs, since our distributor is also UK based.
Said that, I'm considering using Kunaki (what Ektoplazm uses) for our next releases.
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On 2010-10-11 22:24, Yidam wrote:
@ Mike A. 500 in 6 months is a pretty good roll, you'll sell those 1000 in due time.
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Sales decrease exponentially. 500 in 6 months means 1000 in 6 years, not 1000 in 12 months.
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| YIDAM like i said in the last part of my previou post i havent mentioned a lot of things including mechanical rights (which is actually copyright costs in Greece named AEPI, in Israel ACUM, in France Sagem and so on). |
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Do you have to use those?
I never registred with them, since I do not feel they protect my rights. I mean, people will still share the release on the internet. So why pay extra?
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| But I can’t help noticing that a lot of what you’re talking about has to do with your business model. For example, who said you should pay artists and mastering engineers upfront? |
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Mastering has to be upfront or they will not master anything. Artists is a bit more flexible, but I prefer paying upfront so I will not have any debts to anyway. I've been hurt with that a bit in our first release.
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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144
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 09:00
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@ Mike A: copyrighting comes to use when another label wants to sub license the tracks, if the music gets airtime or if it's picked up for any kind of soundtrack.
Also, I know it's not linear but it will not take 6 years either. 3 years maybe, and that's a decent print cycle for psytrance. Please don't give up and keep pushing it as it's one of those albums that's not time bound.
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Mike A
Subra
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185
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 10:08
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On 2010-10-12 09:00, Yidam wrote:
@ Mike A: copyrighting comes to use when another label wants to sub license the tracks, if the music gets airtime or if it's picked up for any kind of soundtrack.
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What's the chance of that happening? 
It is not worth the trouble.
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 14:48
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Dear MIKE A and YIDAM copyright comes into the game when you release a track from an artist that has copyrighted himself,it hasnt got to do anything with the label (if the label wishes to skip it ofcourse) but it has to do with the artists.
Well established artists (Hallucinogen,GMS,Infected Mushroom,Astral Projection almost every Scandinavian artist and such) are registered to copyright companies and when they make new tracks they register these tracks in those companies. So if you buy such a track (even if its unreleased) when you go to the print factory and they ask you for the full tracklist and the credits for each track they make a check and tell you for example that 4 artists are registered and you have to pay copyright rights.
In Greece every registered track costs around 250-300 euros i dont know how much it costs in other countries.
And by the way since some people mentioned a psy trance cd's cycle of life well the 90% of the sales take place within the first 6 months. After that nobody cares about the release anymore and it gets lost in the endless back catalogue of Psyshop and Saikosounds.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Perma Fry
IsraTrance Full Member
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56
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2835
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 15:30
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On 2010-10-12 14:48, DETOX wrote:
And by the way since some people mentioned a psy trance cd's cycle of life well the 90% of the sales take place within the first 6 months. After that nobody cares about the release anymore and it gets lost in the endless back catalogue of Psyshop and Saikosounds.
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x2 I think that this makes total sense.
peace
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 16:37
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Mike A
Subra
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185
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3954
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 16:48
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-12 14:48, DETOX wrote:
Dear MIKE A and YIDAM copyright comes into the game when you release a track from an artist that has copyrighted himself,it hasnt got to do anything with the label (if the label wishes to skip it ofcourse) but it has to do with the artists.
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Again - none of my artists are registered. Some asked me if they need to, I didn't see the point in that.
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 18:46
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Mike its usually well known names that are registered in copyright companies since they have more chances in having one of their tracks gaining extended airplay or getting licensed for other compilations or even used in tv.
Like GMS and Deedrah having their music featured in the film Man On Fire with Denzel Washington.
When i run my label Exposure Productions most of the artists i worked with (Deedrah,Dino Psaras,Prometheus,Electric Universe,Logic Bomb,S Range,Bamboo Forest and more) where registered to copyright companies. Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 20:11
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On 2010-10-12 14:48, DETOX wrote:
And by the way since some people mentioned a psy trance cd's cycle of life well the 90% of the sales take place within the first 6 months. After that nobody cares about the release anymore and it gets lost in the endless back catalogue of Psyshop and Saikosounds.
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Why do you think this is?
I can think of a few explanations but maybe you know which one (if any) is right.
- all the potential buyers have been waiting for the release and snatched their copies right away;
- after first couple of months (weeks?) the release is on every pirate blog;
- a typical release is a short-lived curiosity and not a timeless masterpiece.
What do you think the reason is?
P.S. BTW, again, every one of these explanations will equally aplly to Internet releases. Maybe it's not CDs that are dead, maybe it's music for sale that is over.  |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 23:39
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People always prefer to buy new stuff rather than older stuff which they can easily get on the internet,as simple as that. Also after some months the internet shops dont restock on older releases so some cds are unavailable to get.
When i released the first two Wizzy Noise album (Sabotage Part 1 & 2) i sold something to 500-600 copies just in Japan but after the cds got sold out the distributors there didnt want to buy more copies even though demand was high because they had to buy and promote newer releases from other labels.
Its a big discussion this one 
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
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8087
Posted : Oct 13, 2010 14:02
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for me what is missing is some good cds to buy. it get expensive when you buy a cd and get tired of it after 3 listens (price is a problem for me),now ppl rather buy a track here and there on beatport or other digital shop they don t have to pay for the tracks they don t like.
i bought hundreds of vinyls but less than 10 cds...(and the music as always been avalaible for free with radios playing all the new stuff)
i think mini cd with just 2 or 4 tracks and lower price would have suited me better.
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