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Anti-Phase Phase phase question about my phase with my phase phase
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 11:07
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Okay so I just watched AndiVax's mixing tutorial video and the part about Phase/AntiPhase problems intrigued me.
Much to my dismay, when I view things with PAZ analyzer, alot of my synths etc. have ridiculous 'anti-phase' problems.
So...does this even matter if my song is in stereo? I could really care less how it sounds in mono...unless it will make it sound better in stereo.
And hey, even if you don't know, how many of you use compression on synth parts? I'm really curious, since I've been experimenting with that lately.
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 11:12
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depends if you want to play it on big rigs which are nearly always mono.
stick something like s1 on the master out and check it in mono. If you haven't got that use blockfish which will do the same as long as you apply no compression. Don't forget to take it off again!
I use compressors on virtually everything, however, I often am increasing dynamic range of the part, by getting goofy with attack times and deep ratios...
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 11:17
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Yeah, I dunno, I think it's pretty crazy to have any sort of music in Mono nowadays.. my friend runs a 20,000 watt Turbo system and it's definitely not in mono..I mean, I know clubs do it alot but my music will definitely not be played in clubs.
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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779
Posted : Dec 8, 2007 11:26
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 11:29
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Man.. I have no idea what that even means but it's a possibility. I mean, could hear panning effects and stuff and it sure sounds stereo. Isn't stereo just two mono sound sources anyways?
man I wish there was an isratrance music creation IRC room... |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 11:38
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yes, stereo is effectively two mono sound sources.
Normal practice as far as I know is to sum the stereo files into one mono signal, and duplicate this channel over each of the stereo out channels. In other words, both left and right are the same.
You can still get panning effects out of this by changing volume of each channel idependently, but the stereo field of the original recording is lost, so effectively, to all intents and purposes the music is mono.
But stereo rigs are rare, as you get all kinds of problems setting them up, and listening to them, even if they are set up well. That is not to say they cannot be done.
Now thats a pretty convoluted, and possibly inaccurate description of what is going on. As I said, this is not my area of expertise. Also, I don't know the rig in question.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 11:55
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Huh...super interesting.. well shit I am kind of dissapointed..
Why is it so hard to make large sound systems stereo...or ...why would anyone ever buy one that isn't?
OR is there some sort of equipment that makes it stereo?
I'm looking up my friend's system, which I'm pretty sure is the TXD system and it doesn't say anything about it being stereo.
HMmmmmmmm
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 12:07
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because stereo requires the listener to be positioned within a certain position for the illusion to be maintained.
If someone is say 15metres away fom the left speaker and 30metres away from the right speaker, and you have a lead which is autopanning then in effect they are going to hear that as the lead fading in and out in volume, rather then a pan across the stereo field.
Okay thats probably not the best example, but basically the further away you are from something the quieter it becomes.
Let alone phase issues caused by room acoustics, which can quite easily destroy the sound.
Anyhow, it is what it is, nearly every rig that you play on currently will be mono, even if your friend has a particularly nice rig. Just check your mixes in mono - if they sound okay then they are okay. And by okay, I mean nothing sticking out as overtly 'wrong'. Obviously it won't sound as good.
I often mix out of one monitor (well I say monitor  ) which is great as a) you are checking it as you go along b) it can really help with EQ and harmonic issues of the room you are mixing in c) can really help with harmonic issues in the mix and d) you get to go back into stereo at points which is like sex for your ears 
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 12:40
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Sorry I just can't believe this...
If you are standing 30ft away from a 20,000 watt soundsystem outdoors...and it pans..and it's stereo..it definitely does NOT sound like it is just getting quieter.. if anything it sounds more like that when it's in mono...
And besides, isn't a speaker mono until it's plugged into a stereo source? I can't find anything about a 'true stereo' system. |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 12:47
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a single speaker is by definition mono. You cannot plug a speaker into a stereo source.
with the distance thing.
imagine you are standing at the end point of a straight line.
now imagine a speaker at the other end of the line. This is the 'right' speaker
now imagine there is a speaker somewhere on the line. This is the 'left' speaker
It is impossible to determine the difference you hear between the two (assuming they are identical in every other respect) as there is a pan in anything other then in terms of volume - at an outdoor party with literally nothing in the way.
Thats forced, yes, but equally true when you are '*off axis*. If there is literally *anything* around (including the floor) you start getting reflections of that... and the two signals start running into phase issues, where the signals can start killing or boosting each other.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
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546
Posted : Dec 8, 2007 12:48
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one individual speaker is necessarily mono - it cannot reproduce a stereo source because it is omnidirectional. unless i'm being dense...
not all big rigs are mono... there are stereo, and there are summed mono solutions. finding what works on each can throw you; try to listen to what other artists are doing.
i hardly use compression at all. maybe on a few channels; bass, perhaps a group of hihats.
imho: if everything a) comes from a good original source, b) is carefully EQd and c) has its place in the mix... then you don't need to use much compression.
you should never do anything just because you think you should |
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
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546
Posted : Dec 8, 2007 12:48
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oh, snap |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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779
Posted : Dec 8, 2007 12:58
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posts :
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Posted : Dec 8, 2007 12:59
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Yeah I meant a mono soundsystem.. not just one speaker  hah.
Yeah I mean I'm listening to derango and ocelot and stuff and jesus christ it sounds awful in mono.
no offense guyz
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Dec 8, 2007 13:04
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no - non taken, this can be a surprisingly confusing issue.
With the listening in mono thing, yes it sucks, but the brain adapts to it surprisingly quickly I find.
Just think how good that stereo sounds when you switch back!
And when you are mixing your own tunes, its so much easier to EQ the bass this way.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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