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Anarchy and Fuck For Forest Video by TimeWaveZero TV
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mentalcandy
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 21, 2009 23:44
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On 2009-10-21 23:09, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
@ Aluxe..once again..comparing freedom of sex, to freedom of facial exposure is just not the same thing.
Sex is an act of procreation or pleasure, but has it's biological roots in the concept of procreation, it is an act that is required for a particular consequence and thus is not the same as hijab. I hope you see the difference. Secondly, covering one's face is just extremely inconvenient and unfair if it is based on gender and thus has it's roots in INEQUALITY.
Whereas no public sex applies to all regardless and thus is not unequal in a sense... Yes it is unequal to you maybe because you want to afford people the right to do as they wish, but then that should apply to everything. Would you be accepting of public displays of child abuse?? Even if the child is a willing participant (Maybe coming from a poor family and is willing to take a lashing and a kicking in return for food)?? Would you be accepting of paedophilia if the child is a willing participant? Would you be accepting of public displays of intense physical torture if both parties are willing participants and get turned on by torturing each other. I mean imagine two people cutting up each other at a trance party because they get "turned on"!!! Based on your theory, the world could become a chaotic and deviant place.
Thus sex on one's garden is again completely different from a barbeque in one's garden. Why do you insist on very loose analogies??
If Muslim people require hijab they are free to exert that requirement in their own countries, also a designated area. If FFF wants to fuck in public, let them do it in a designated area, no one is taking that away from them.
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Fria.... dont waste your time on this thread.... some people will just have their balls opinion...... you should just sit with a smoothie and chillout.... hahahah 
bOm
  Sorting scenezzzZ to find the ultimate chill :DD |
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IsraTrance Full Member
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65
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1707
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:06
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Fria, let me extend you some questions.
Do you believe that in the end there is only one supreme truth?
Do you believe that if you can understand this truth you will have the key to changing the world?
Do you believe that the most intelligent and objective people should rule the government?
Do you think our goal must be a perfect world where we will be in perfect harmony with everything around us?
Do you think people must be enlightened or awakened and show them the truth?
Do you believe that we are living a decadent world?
Do you believe that reason and logic are enough to solve all problems?
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
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Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:23
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| If done correctly there is no reason why sex needs to be banned from ALL PUBLIC places. Or is there? |
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My definition of a public place is a place that is open and accessible to all people, regardless of background, gender, race, age, socio-economic level, etc. No fees or paid tickets are required for entry, and maintenance of the space is largely paid for by taxpayer money and/or philanthropic donation. To me, this includes government buildings, public libraries, marketplaces, town squares, streets, parks, etc. and many other areas. There are certain things that the general public who supports these areas do not wish to have to deal with in those areas, and sex is one of them.
I am supportive of the designated area - idea of sexual activity, especially in the private residence (no-brainer there I think). Like a public swimming pool, I would be happy with at least a semi-enclosed public sex area which was supported by the patrons (as people pay for swimming pool/shower/locker tickets) and followed certain agreed-upon regulations. I would even support taxpayer money to fund programs and supplies to promote safe sexual behavior (something which I do in general anyway) at these places. In fact, I wouldn't want it any other way.
I think though that in almost all cases, people who wish to engage in sex seek some sort of privacy for their business in much the same way that one seeking to empty one's bladder or bowels seeks privacy. I think the only people who are concerned with having sex in public (and to me this relates to the sex-on-ones-front-lawn point brought up) are the public exhibitionist fetish types who get off more on putting themselves in the way of people, forcing them to involuntarily witness them or go somewhere else if they don't like it, which is a "shock" fetish, more than the act of sex itself. These people are a severe and exclusive minority representing an extremely deviant sexual taste and I don't see why the general public who represents the vast majority should feel responsible to pander to them, as what they do is a choice and also a sign of disrespect and disregard to those around them in today's society. Even the most hardcore of the hardcore sexual deviants almost always find a place to do their thing undisturbed. If they expect respect from the general public then they can show respect also.
I do not agree with sex in non-designated public areas such as a city park, a street, a library, a government building, etc. These areas are meant for other purposes. I'm not going to play loud music and rock out in a library and similarly I don't expect other people to disturb me with their sex while I'm there.
I will say, though, on the subject of orgies, in history and even in the present, the phenomenon of group sex often goes hand in hand with other hedonistic pleasurable and potentially irresponsible activities, such as alcohol and drug use, loss of inhibitions and judgment which have never been considered the safest and cleanest affairs. While all of these things may not be harmful things on their own, all rolled into one and it can quickly snowball into a potentially dangerous situation for those involved and who might be nearby unwittingly (such as children playing at the park playground next to the booze and drug fueled sex orgy). Also, historical accounts of this sort of liberalism gone to too far of an extreme are rampant... pedophilia, violence, rape, incest, and all sorts of other nasties. To me, it's more important to live in a society where my kids can play at the park by themselves without me needing to watch over them or worry about what the mob might suck them into. At least until they are old enough to decide for themselves what they want to do.
Your argument is fine in a utopic wonderland, but it is highly, highly theoretical in nature and fails to take into account the uglier sides of human nature... which already exist and have existed as long as humans have. Also, the days of the tribal hunter-gatherer society have been over a long time and we live in a much much different world now and we need to take that into account.
Fundamentally, it's my opinion that people in general CANNOT be trusted to make the responsible decision and will attempt to abuse ANY system or freedom they can possibly exploit. To me a free sex society is CERTAINLY no exception to the rule. There has been nothing I have encountered in history or in the present day on the societal level which has proven me otherwise so far. Every society in the past that has adopted such extreme forms of liberalism and hedonism has also come hand in hand with (what I feel) are the most hideous and disgusting abuses of other human beings I could imagine. Also, none of these societies in the past have long since died and are no longer around today except in ruins, stories, folklore, etc. And neither of those two things are accidents.
If there truly is a movement of people who wish to live in the way you are suggesting, they are free to find their own corner, start their own society/culture/tribe, and live that way in their own "public" (which again will only be a macro-designated area also).
But when you're in Rome, you do what the Romans do. No matter where "Rome" happens to be for you.
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
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95
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5380
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:33
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:34
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lol, what do you mean? Or was that a word play joke on the word "lay"? If it was, it made me chuckle. 
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:37
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On 2009-10-21 16:52, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Taken from the pdf that Moki refuses to acknowledge. I have taken the time to type out selective sentences on discrimination.
This is about Tantra Yoga
Chinnamasta (one of the 10 Avatars of Kali that is SPECIFIC to Tantra) is the Goddess of Discriminating Perception.
Just Google Chinnamasta and Discrimination and the search will show you links to several tantrik texts dealing with the subject.
Meditational Methods on how to develope Tejas (Spiritual Energy of Fire).
Meditational Methods
1) DISCRIMINATION (Viveka) and inquiry (Vichara) are the main principle meditational principles for developing Tejas as they develope Buddhi, the fiery perspective of the mind.
Discrimination consists of discerning between reality and unreality, truth and falsehood, the Self and the NOT-Self, the pure and the impure. Normally the Buddhi or discriminating principle is concerned with differentiating the names and forms of the outer world, measuring, pricing and naming things, creating various levels of worth status or prestige.
To develope Tejas we must turn Buddhi around or reverse its ordinary and conditioned function. We must distinguish consciousness, which is the eternal formless subjective principle, from name and form, which are transient objective principles. We must focus on the presence of the object, which is not separate from the presence of the seer- and not allow our minds to dwell in the outer aspects of the object and its changing appearances.
Inquiry consists of tracing out the pure I as distinct from the changing circumstances of the various identifications we have created around ourselves. THIS REQUIRES DISCRIMINATION.
Sorry if it's Off topic. Need to drive Home a point that someone refuses to accept based on her western sexual view of Tantra as handed down by various baba's associated with Goa Gil.
You might not want to believe that Kali exhibits childish behaviour BUT SHE DOES. You might not want to believe that Shiva was stupid enough to chop off the head of his own Son, but he did, and thus was borne the elephant God Ganesh, with the body of a man and the head of an Elephant..Yes Indian Gods and Goddesses do exhibit humanistic emotions. DEAL WITH IT.
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and again fria. i am sorry that it is impossible for me to give up in front of your half knowledge but i need at least to briefly tell you that you completely mistake and missunderstand tantra if you believe that it is about discriminating. this sentence as you wrote it is even abusive towards tantra itself.
viveka is a stage that you need to cover BEFORE you come to deal with true tantra. as well as yoga n patanjali. these are the two stages before you come to unite the polarities. and btw i have never stated that tantra is all about sex. not even slightly. only less than 10 percents of the teachings of tantra are connected to sex. and even then - it is more about keeping it back and no so much about doing sex itself. and even with this issue you find quite big differences between tibetan and hindu tantrism. i am more into the tibetan.
and again. i opened both your first link and your second pdf link. i dont know with what argument do you consider that these are links to background a statement about tantra. in the first case it was a link about yoga and patanjali ( and tantra starts exactly there where patanjali ends), in the second case it was in the part about the goddesses.
whatever, i am sort of too tired of this topic now and i just cant afford to put more energy into reading it and answering every question that someones puts. it is just too much time and i need the time for other purposes, i am sorry.
and still, you havent changed yourself even slightly. i respect any opinion about fff and dont even wanna keep my energy focused to so long on one the same topic which is not even lying in my interest ( i said that i am interested n tantra which is exactly what fff dont do). so i just wanna lean back and do other things instead. wish you fun.
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
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725
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:37
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again..comparing freedom of sex, to freedom of facial exposure is just not the same thing. Sex is an act of procreation or pleasure, but has it's biological roots in the concept of procreation, it is an act that is required for a particular consequence and thus is not the same as hijab. I hope you see the difference.
Secondly, covering one's face is just extremely inconvenient and unfair if it is based on gender and thus has it's roots in INEQUALITY.
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Fria sex everywhere is primarily repressed based on religious and subjective morals values which are not that different from the moral values used to suppress the freedom of facial exposure in some Muslim countries. Do you follow me? Sex is repressed on the grounds of morality, modesty, decency and privacy which are the same grounds on which facial exposure is prohibited. So if we are not going to force everyone to subject to the Hijab why should we subject everyone to subject to sexual codes that are based on religious and subjective moral grounds?
But if we can leave religion and subjective values out of the equation (which is only fair!) then please explain on what grounds do you want to suppress sexual freedom? You mentioned that it was aesthetically offensive to you which is not enough because that is merely a personal perspective.
And just so you know sexual repression does have many of its roots in gender inequality, do some research on the subject.
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Would you be accepting of public displays of child abuse?? Even if the child is a willing participant (Maybe coming from a poor family and is willing to take a lashing and a kicking in return for food)?? Would you be accepting of paedophilia if the child is a willing participant?
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Wow what a horrible comparison. Fria child abuse is infringing on the rights of somebody else. It is NOT ever based on CONSENT no matter if they kid "agrees" because he is only a kid and is not old enough to even understand what is going on. Do you understand?
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Would you be accepting of public displays of intense physical torture if both parties are willing participants and get turned on by torturing each other. I mean imagine two people cutting up each other at a trance party because they get "turned on"!!! Based on your theory, the world could become a chaotic and deviant place.
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Hey it might be a good fit for dark trance and it's probably already part of some death metal concerts. And actually there is a culture around all this you describe where people cut themselves and hang from hooks in their back and are entertained by the shock value of extreme forms of body modification and gory displays. It's their right to do whatever they want! Now if they wanted to cut somebody without their consent, it would be different story.
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Thus sex on one's garden is again completely different from a barbeque in one's garden. Why do you insist on very loose analogies??
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Well then explain how does somebody having sex in their garden harm anybody any more than somebody having a barbecue? And please refrain from personal subjective points of view and like Login suggested, better stick to scientific explanation please. Be specific.
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If FFF wants to fuck in public, let them do it in a designated area, no one is taking that away from them.
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Well you seem to be opposed to them fucking in their front lawn. Right? So I am asking you again, how exactly do they harm anybody by having sex in their lawn or on what grounds would you want to deny them that freedom?
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:44
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On 2009-10-22 00:34, Axis Mundi wrote:
lol, what do you mean? Or was that a word play joke on the word "lay"? If it was, it made me chuckle.
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I mean that in India it's commonplace to see rows of people taking a dump together in the open air.
The quote was to say that you cannot take the way life works in any one particular locality and extrapolate it to say that this is how it is for everyone. I (and Kipling) believe all human behaviour is mediated by the culture it's embedded in; that there is no one standard of behaviour that applies to us all.
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
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Posted : Oct 22, 2009 00:59
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On 2009-10-22 00:44, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2009-10-22 00:34, Axis Mundi wrote:
lol, what do you mean? Or was that a word play joke on the word "lay"? If it was, it made me chuckle.
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I mean that in India it's commonplace to see rows of people taking a dump together in the open air.
The quote was to say that you cannot take the way life works in any one particular locality and extrapolate it to say that this is how it is for everyone. I (and Kipling) believe all human behaviour is mediated by the culture it's embedded in; that there is no one standard of behaviour that applies to us all.
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Haha, okay, fair enough. I stand corrected. 
Just wondering though, is it commonplace to see people having sex in the same fashion in India? If not, I would guess it may come down to that taking a dump is necessary for individual survival while sex is not and largely an individual choice. |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
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8649
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 01:25
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On 2009-10-22 00:44, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2009-10-22 00:34, Axis Mundi wrote:
lol, what do you mean? Or was that a word play joke on the word "lay"? If it was, it made me chuckle.
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I mean that in India it's commonplace to see rows of people taking a dump together in the open air.
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I'll try to remember that the next time I book my vacation.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 01:56
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@MOki...
whether it be an initial stage or a final stage, or prior to conjuction or post, in Tantra and Yoga..DISCRIMINATION, especially if it is an initial stage, is thus required to attain a higher state. There is no such thing as "stages before True Tantra"...that's just ridiculous. It's all part of the discipline of tantra and yoga. I don't care if you do not want to believe it. It is fact. Google Chinnamasta and discrimination. She is the form of Kali that represents HIgher perception and discrimination...and Chinnamasta is a tantrik Goddess, why do you deign to argue on such matters Moki. It is very tiresome.
Discrimination does not need to be a negative, it definitely has positive aspects.
@ Aluxe...would you be accepting of voluntary slashers in a public park. When I go for a walk in the park do you think it's fair if two sadists are cutting each other up near the playground?? Do you think it should be allowed in a gym?? You're just telling me that such a sub culture exists and I know this already. But I'll be damned if I have to witness this type of stuff. I mean please answer..DO YOU THINK SLASHING SHOULD BE ALLOWED AT A TRANCE PARTY?? Again, I'm not preventing them from doing it, just don't do it in my face simple. Offcourse it's not harming me if they do decide to slash themselves, but there are certain visuals that people do not want to have to endure necessarily, and since it does cause discomfort to people, why can't this sort of behaviour be indulged in private?? It's not about harm, it's just about privacy and conducive settings. Why do you feel it's a violation of someone's rights if I request them to do their fucking in a less populated place??
I do not think not being ok with public sex has anything to do with REPRESSION. No one is saying "Don't have sex at all." All I'm saying is that it's a private matter best left for a private setting. This is not based on any religious beliefs..
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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725
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 02:23
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But when you're in Rome, you do what the Romans do. No matter where "Rome" happens to be for you.
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Well it is always the efforts of a minority that has pushed the world into a better place so I disagree that minorities should just do as in Rome and forget their own freedoms simply out of respect for the majority. And the true test of how free society really is, is in how they treat the minorities. And remember the majorities are just like sheep, their opinions are not even their own opinions because they just accept whatever religion and the media tells them without much thought. It is the minorities who challenge the mainstream ideas and push society to new and better places. Without them we would still have slavery, witches and homosexuals would still be persecuted, etc.
So if we are to progress I think minorities and their freedoms should be protected not oppressed because in the majorities best interest.
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Oct 22, 2009 02:58
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What that saying means is to respect the rules of the country you're in. Chances are you're going to run into problems really fast by throwing a society's culture back in their face. Certain cultures don't appreciate certain behaviors and even if they are harmless actions in and of themselves, they will elicit some strong and harsh reactions. (For the most part, alternative-types and "free spirits" have it damned easy in the West, to the point that society even spoils them as it is.) The way they react may not be right either, but if you piss of a group of people as their first impression of you, you really haven't advanced anything. If FFF does what they did onstage at Universo Parallelo in a good many parts of the world, they'd get their heads cut off. Nothing has been advanced. If anything, they would be made examples of but not in the way they'd like.
And those few you're talking about who changed the world... they did it through sacrifice. That's what made what they did so powerful. I honestly don't see what FFF is sacrificing. (Of course there are also minorities sacrificing themselves to make the world a better place according to THEIR idea all the time, by blowing themselves up in markets and universities. Some of them are also ideological sheep/slaves to the organizations they represent.)
If you just let people do whatever they want, where and whenever they want, you'd get nothing but chaos and destruction.
Also, witches and homosexuals are still oppressed, a LOT more than FFF. There is also still slavery of the worst kind today.
(On a side note, I wonder if FFF gets money from the state welfare system of Germany. It would be interesting to know. I know a lot of Germans both in and out of the psy-trance scene who don't work, sit around all day smoking pot and collect their monthly check. Ironically, a lot of these same people are the ones who talk about how they want to "change the system".) |
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IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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1707
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 03:21
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Those societies not tolerating the type of behaviour of fuck for forest are still closed societies, with tribal values as the core of their beliefs.
Individualism hasnt penetrate enough to broke tribal tabus, but they will fall eventually by that incredible force of change that its capitalism.
This discussion in the end is a clear example of the paradigm of human society since Athens invented democracy, free thinking vs tribalism.
Fria and trancevisuals doesnt realize where their way of thinking comes from: the desire for something pure and perfect, the return to the innocent human mind which is not corrupted. Remember extreme right, extreme left and tribalism are all the same, guided by the blinding truth from Plato's sun, the only an real truth.
Its incredible that people that is supossed to be so open minded still falls in to the idealism trap, and its sad cause its very good amount of energy wasted.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
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368
Posted : Oct 22, 2009 04:03
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In a democratic world, given the variation of human likes and dislikes, what makes sense is to practice your beliefs (no one says not to practice them) but in an environment conducive to it.
This is not a right wing point of view. If everyone were to indulge in their likes in public, it would be pandemonium, given the spectrum of actions that could occur. So do what you need to, do what floats your boat, but do it in private.
I don't see anything wrong with that at all.
I am still waiting for facts on ancient cultures that indulged in public sex as the norm. None has been forthcoming so I take it that this was not "natural" behaviour and hence the whole argument falls apart. It has nothing to do with religion or morals, because it never was an accepted part of any society.
Now if someone can guide me towards some factual information that contradicts me, I would be more than willing to perhaps inspect why I have such inhibitions about such exhibitions.
No One is oppressing FFF...just requesting them to conduct their business in their offices rather than in a public area.
Kindly explain to me why this is considered a Boo Boo. I think it's more than fair to allow deviant behaviour but require that it be conducted in private...or public but designated.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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