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Anarchy and Fuck For Forest Video by TimeWaveZero TV
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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725
Posted : Oct 15, 2009 09:13
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| Fria Tantra wrote:
Firstly, comparing exposure of ones face and the emotions it might elicit, to that of a sexual exhibition and the emotions that might invoke...SORRY once again horrible analogy.
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Which just goes to show what a simplistic and narrow view of sex you have. I think sexuality encompasses everything we are, every cell. It’s not just our genitals but every part of our body including our face, in fact our face is a huge doorway into one of the most important aspects of our sexuality which is our personality and mind. So should we also bann all these other aspects of our sexuality just so they do not offend the minds of conservatives who want to keep everything sexual in private?
But regardless, I think you are totally missing the point. I mean can’t you see that the beliefs of one group might be offensive to another group? So who is right? A guy wearing a death metal tshirt could potentially offend some conservative christian, or somebody carrying symbols of one religion could potential offend somebody of a different religion, there are many more examples. So what do we do? By who’s standards do we go by? Think about it, if we all want to keep our personal freedoms there is only one good solution: TOLERANCE. If the guys of FFF were raping people then it would be a different story. But they are not bothering anybody at least not beyond how some kids playing with their tricycle at the park might bother some old man trying to concentrate on the book he is reading while he sits at the bench. It’s public space and it should belong to everyone, not just uptight conservatives.
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Seems a bit superficial, so don't rock my boat with this open your mind, be tolerant crap.
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Hey be free to keep your own ideas but don’t expect the world to revolve around them, and specially don’t try to force your views on everyone as if you set the standards of what is right and wrong because otherwise you start coming off as a bigot.
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And once again, I have no issues with FFF, fucking like bunnies in a designated area.
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Well but you are the one with issues, maybe you should instead help yourself to a designated area where nobody will offend your strict conservative set of morals.
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Yes I am conservative,
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Yes you are, and it pretty much covers your perspective.
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Osho doesn't impress me either.
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This is not about Osho but about something he said that relates to this issue which I think is very accurate and insightful. You can say about Osho whatever you want, but the quote speaks for itself. Hey if it helps just pretend that somebody else wrote it. Maybe then you can actually focus on the messege and not the messenger.
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TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 09:26
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On 2009-10-15 09:13, Aluxe wrote:
Maybe then you can actually focus on the messege and not the messenger.
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A bit like saying the "end justifies the means", which most civilised people tend to reject as a metaphysical proposition.
Oh yes I forgot, "do as I say, not as I do."
Hmmmmm, if someone can't live upto what they preach, then simply they shouldn't preach, imho.
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IsraTrance Full Member
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1707
Posted : Oct 15, 2009 09:32
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Its time to bury Plato dont you think? he has being causing so much trouble for two and half milleniums, Im tired of his bullshit
And there is no better way to do that than by being as chaotik and awkwark as FFF.
 "The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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725
Posted : Oct 15, 2009 09:38
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On 2009-10-15 09:26, TranceVisuals wrote:
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On 2009-10-15 09:13, Aluxe wrote:
Maybe then you can actually focus on the messege and not the messenger.
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A bit like saying the "end justifies the means", which most civilised people tend to reject as a metaphysical proposition.
Oh yes I forgot, "do as I say, not as I do."
Hmmmmm, if someone can't live upto what they preach, then simply they shouldn't preach, imho.
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But what does it matter if what is been said speaks for itself? If your own mind accepts the insight in something that is said are you really going to discard it simply because of the flaws you find in the messenger? talk about getting stuck in useless details.
It's like as if a known charlatan solves a math equation which you can confirm yourself to be correct. Would the equation solution be suddenly wrong simply because of who solved it? no it would not!
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TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
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743
Posted : Oct 15, 2009 10:41
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[quote]
On 2009-10-15 09:38, Aluxe wrote:
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It's like as if a known charlatan solves a math equation which you can confirm yourself to be correct. Would the equation solution be suddenly wrong simply because of who solved it? no it would not!
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*puts on comic book guy voice*
WORST ANALOGY EVER!!!
Personally I go for the holisitic package, afterall Hitler had some wonderful ideas for the majority of europeans, living in a kind of hippie wonderland.... |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 11:02
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| “In fact, it makes me mad when someone kills snakes or dogs or cats or horses. I don't even like to eat meat - that is how much I am against killing....” |
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~Charles Manson
Sure, you can take a quote of someone completely out of context and turn it into something which supports your argument. But who says it is just as important as what is being said. I'm sure one could take the quote of any maniac in the world and reading it by itself, could be "something to live by".
I like your posts and your attitude, Aluxe, however I disagree with you in that taking a quote by a person and a mathematical equation makes a very poor analogy. A mathematical equation will give you the same absolute result no matter that language you speak, what your background is, or what stance you take in an argument. "1+1=2" only supports the argument that "1+1=2" and no other. It does not support an argument that "1+1=3" or "3-1=0". Quotes, especially philosophical, metaphorical, or idiomatic quotes, are at best open to interpretation, sometimes even being used to support two contradicting sides to an argument, and when you remove context, it would be like saying that "1+(x)=2" where (x) could be any number.
Back to topic:
Sex is a base, fundamental instinct, yet it is also something sacred because it is the means of communication and in which a species propagates itself. When you treat it as one, it begins to lose the qualities of the other. The profoundly positive consequences of sex are just as far-reaching ad the negative consequences. This is why sex should be treated with respect. Discerning, contentious sex leads to a more healthy, robust species and relationships more intimate than can be verbally described. Careless, impulsive sex leads to a weaker species. If people go around having sex when and wherever they feel like it, its value is diminished and its meaning goes from one to the other. When sex is used purely as a plaything or as a tool to achieve a purpose other than what it is obviously meant for, even if the intentions are good, it is not doing a species any bit of a favor in the long run.
I can't think of a single surviving society from the past nor a single respect-worthy society where sex is undertaken wherever people are, whenever it is desired. There are certainly societies in the past and present day where this is an accepted practice, but they are not exactly the societies that the rest of humanity (then or now) looks up to as a model for their own. (Of course there are individuals from those societies who have made huge impacts upon our world as we know it, but then these individual cases are just that and I am talking about societies and civilizations on a broader scale and not certain individuals.)
Ultra-liberalism, just like ultra-conservatism, regarding sex and other issues humans have to deal with opens the door for abuse. For example, I have been to Tijuana, Mexico, one of the dirtiest places I have been to in my life, and seen people frequently engaging in sex directly on the street and other places, and the experience is certainly not something I would call "beautiful", "sacred" or "respectable". There are also places in Thailand, for example, where extremely liberal sexual attitudes in society lead to some of the worst human abuses today. The fact is, the line always has to be drawn somewhere, and a person's freedoms end where another person's begins (as was pointed out earlier)... at least, that's how it should be.
Perhaps humanity's greatest potential lies in our ability to govern our urges of all kinds for the sake of something greater. Giving in to every whim that strikes us without consideration or respect for ourselves and those around us leads to negative short- and long-term consequences just as the other end of the spectrum does.
Again, I repeat... sadly, I step around enough filthy, disease-spreading human waste on the streets as it is without concerning myself with sexual waste either. I'm not any cooler with semen and vaginal secretions forced into my environment any more than I am with blood, urine, or feces. If you're cool with strangers' cum in your environment then do the rest of us a favor and keep it to your private surroundings and out of public places where the rest of us have to deal with it without asking for it. The same goes for your trash, blood, urine, and feces as well.
That being said, I state once again that if you want to behave a certain way, there is always a time and place for doing so and for not doing so. You are free to do what you want as long as you do not bother the rest of us in your environment. You have that right but you do not have the right to act like you are doing me or anyone else a favor by engaging in your personal practices, whatever they are.
If that makes me a shame to whom and what I represent, Moki, you're entitled to your opinion, however I am positive that there are plenty who disagree with you. |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 11:57
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@ ALuxe...
I think our fundamental differences on the topic stem from the fact that you equate sex to be the same as wearing a T shirt, playing with a tricycyle and other such benign activities....but to me it is not such a casual undertaking. You speak of tlerance, and I speak of respect...I find it disrespectfull for them to fuck publicly and you find it intolerant on my part to harbour such opinions...but nonetheless it is what it is.
I feel it extremely disrepectfull for someone to invade my sense of dcency publicly...a sense of decency that maybe conservative to you, but as Moki said..is nonetheless unacceptable in most places.
I feel that if FFF showed some respect towards the act of sex, it would come across is nobler light and at the end of the day, what wqe all need is respect, not necessarily tolerance..cause in that same vein one could say, why the hell aren t you and FFF tolerant of destruction of the forest. Deal with it. It is human instinct to consume and destroy just as you say promiscuous sex is human nature...whereas if we all had a little more respect for people around us and our environment, probably the forests wouldn t be in such a bad state.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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day_tripper
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1120
Posted : Oct 15, 2009 12:09
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The problem with an open mind is that it's too porous to hold any conviction...
"It's not the fall that kills you; it's the sudden stop at the end." - Douglas Adams |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 13:08
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On 2009-10-15 11:57, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
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I feel it extremely disrepectfull for someone to invade my sense of dcency publicly...a sense of decency that maybe conservative to you, but as Moki said..is nonetheless unacceptable in most places.
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i just said, it is forbidden by the authorities. but as the trance scene is actually culturally and historically derived from the hippie culture - then it is logical that a naked body would rarely by a problem for a real psychedelic mind. even those of us who have experienced the spirit of goa would still remember the first days when everybody walked naked and just enjoyed the freedom to be without masks and roles.
i would understand this sense of decency if it came from a real conservative wing of older people who never had a psychedelic trip, never broke up with the system, never felt free and confortable in their sexuality. and i do respect it btw, for instance there are countries where i myself would make a very bad impression if i dont cover my legs or my shoulders. it is appropriate to respect this sense of decency, at least if you wanna have a tolerant interraction with such people.
BUT HEY, this is berlin, man, this is not a decent example of a steril society. berlin used to be one the most free places on earth - the place where the love parade greq up, the place where the fuck parade grew up, the place where no one will give a * if you walk with your homosexual partner on the street and kiss him/her gently...it is the place where even politicians are not decent enough and appear with their homosexual partner on official meetings of politicians. see the last elections.
HEY and you talk about decency in such an environment. sorry, i find this truely inappropriate.  it just doesnt fit to reality.
whereas the argument might me understandable, it is just totally far away from reality. because the festivals ARE already full of ppl who fuck like that, full of other ugly scenes as well. i truely believe that fuck for forest is the least problem among all those. well, they have at least a vision.
and fria, we had the conversation about india and your conservative views lots of times before - okey, this time i would not bother to go in depth into it, but just something to remember at the end:
we are talking about an anrchist congress. if there is a right place for fff, then it is the anachist congress. it is out of any logic why they got sent away. dont forget that we are even talking about a squat, it means the house doenst belong to anyone - it is just broken into and invaded by the left scene, which is an usual practise in berlin. they dont even have a permission to stay there and sell beer, it simply doesnt belong to anyone, it is a FREE AUTONOMOUS ZONE. so the rules or the consensual reality in such a house are a bit different.
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TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 13:15
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On 2009-10-15 13:08, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
we are talking about an anrchist congress. if there is a right place for fff, then it is the anachist congress.
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The "anarchist congress" or rather its political forerunners at the time, were quite happy to throw the "dada'ists" out for their "shit flinging", I don't see much difference. If anything these sort of "territoral displays" (and lets not forget they are!) tend to be the sort of behaviour I would guess educated and civilised people are trying to get away from imho. They also tend to get in the way of the "dialectic process". |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 13:18
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 13:26
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when you have sex for the want of something better, it leads to procreation...the problem with fuck for forest is that you may end up procreating and you may have not desired those consequences...that means you are fucking out of pleasure, which is not wrong or bad...but it simply pleases your senses...senses are easy to please and to please them you dont have to do much...and to save the forests you must trust the forest, for trees, plants and animals are always fucking to save their kind...man. human are not necessarily fucking to save their specie but more for pleasure...the undesired consequence could be that while your fucking a full grown male elephant witnesses you and that makes him feel horny, which could result in him running amok in the forest trampling trees and everything that comes his way...you dont want this as this will only result in destruction...if you go about fucking to save devastation, you will only enhance the problem...have faith in the forest..its been here longer than any of us....dont put the man-made time limit on it...nature does not have clock...it just keeps on walking. At the most what you can do is go sit in the forest meditate and become the tree, or the stream of water..you are a forest and what you do to yourself, your wants and desires need not always be fulfilled. Take the time paradigm away from nature as it has no meaning in the forest.
The wildness of the forest is the essence Money makes no sense to the forest, you would not go and give the monkey a bag full of cash...it makes not sense.
How long will you fuck for? a day, maybe two or at the maximum 10 days straight...the forest is symbiotic...if you having sex helps plants to grow then do it but if your going to raise money and then generate awareness its useless. there is enough awareness but there isnt enough action...the reason is simple "don't intrude on natures path" give it time to heal ...you cannot over power nature. you may like to feel that you can but really speaking you are just forest dust. a flimsy carbon element...you will try to save a forest but your are incapable of saving yourself from your neighbor who has a loaded gun pointed at you...Save this save that ...savings is the problem...the humans are heavily driven by saving and that has resulted in overpopulation...1900 the world population was roughly around 1 billion today its a little over 6 billion....you have over saved yourself and now you want to save hungry children, poor people and forests?
The thought that we can save, we can deliver has resulted in distrust of nature. All we think is about save life, save forest, yes it may make you feel good...but you have not saved and you cannot save...so what do you do? you start thinking of saving in terms of safety..ridiculous...you project the nature as coming to end and that the world will collapse...save the environment stop global warming...bullshit....you cannot stop that what you did not start...the earth's core is molten lava and is just as hot as the sun we see outside...you think putting economics in the way of nature is a way to BALANCE the nature? are stupid? are you day dreaming?
Nature unlike humans does not calculate, it just keeps on happening. There is no 7 day week or 365 days a year...there is a full moon and the moon cycle. Nature does not believe in distribution...it believes in survival of the fittest...all it takes is one volcano to erupt and destroy the entire forest even though it provided food and shelter and refuge...doesnt matter...a tsunami can take away everything in one swoop...you are helpless..u can cut 2000 year old tree in less than 20 minutes with a power saw...on the contrary everything thing that we do is in favor of nature...we are not told this because of other peoples self interest...i mean if i am capable of pumping 4million barrels of oil daily in my backyard...the govt and society come knocking on my door and tell me i cant do that?? what bunch of garbage, a pack full of lies...make them feel guilty about harnessing nature and you can control them...Just remember every step you take is a step in nature...you are not separate from it, you are nature...your actions serve no one. just be your self and let things happen around you...Nature never stops never sleeps...Saving by the way is the oldest of all economic activities and the basis of all economics...First save, then understand what you save, then sell- get a valuation and then see if it makes sense to make it or buy it from someone else (help others)..then create a demand and finally control the supply...make them feel good to buy then make them feel bad about consuming...then tell them to take care of waste and have a billion dollar waste management industry. clean air is full of despair!
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 13:30
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KundaliniRising
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 17:26
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Do they at least, promote having safe sex during their FFF Opera ? |
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 19:32
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On 2009-10-15 11:57, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
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I feel it extremely disrepectfull for someone to invade my sense of dcency publicly...a sense of decency that maybe conservative to you, but as Moki said..is nonetheless unacceptable in most places.
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The difference here is that you are imposing a limit on the people who wants to have sex in public, because it’s your opinion that’s disgusting and disrespectful, and that’s totally subjective.
They on the other hand while having sex in public are not harming you or trying to put limits in you, your dissatisfaction comes from your values and subjectivity, it’s not their fault at all that you have that set of mind.
The criteria you’re using is the same people uses to ban raves and drugs everywhere, to promote and encourage an “ideal” kind of life based on their subjective values.
If I followed your criteria all top40 music artist and listener should get a shot in the head cause its disgusting music that make me puke and gives me headache. I’m not going to behave as intolerant and totalitarian people do. Let it flow, let people be what they want, you never know when a crazy idea will come in to your mind and you will find hhow useful is freedom.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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