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analog shmanalog
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
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1448
Posted : Apr 17, 2006 18:37
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On 2006-04-17 18:22, Trip- wrote:
aren't we miles off topic ... another milimeter off and I guess this topic will rest.
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Trip: The original question has been answered and explained and links to more info has been posted. (Even music clips!  ).
5Meo-Geo isn't accepting the answers it seems and is coming with claims to support his point of view. Those claims need to be substansiatied.
So we are not really off topic.
UnderTow |
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5Meo-Geo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
515
Posted : Apr 17, 2006 19:03
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ey undertow i dont answer ur non relevant egocentric questions simply cose it wont lead nowhere....
u want names???
here u go...
i hope it will satisfy ur bigger than mine balls
Cosmosis - Trancendance
Kino Oko - Lost Entertainment
Shiva Chandra - Change of air
those artist have realy exelent mixing skills and knowlage i think and produce some top quality sound....
P.S. im not guilty judge... its not me its THEM!!!
 Jesus didnt dance,but his beat goes on
http://www.myspace.com/5me0ge0
PSYCHEDELIC-ZION |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 17, 2006 20:39
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On 2006-04-17 19:03, 5Meo-Geo wrote:
ey undertow i dont answer ur non relevant egocentric questions simply cose it wont lead nowhere....
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I wonder which questions that would be. Probably the ones that would proove you wrong ... Not good for your ego it seems. 
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u want names???
here u go...
i hope it will satisfy ur bigger than mine balls
Cosmosis - Trancendance
Kino Oko - Lost Entertainment
Shiva Chandra - Change of air
those artist have realy exelent mixing skills and knowlage i think and produce some top quality sound....
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I havn't heard the last Cosmosis album but Kino Oko and Shiva Chandra are overly sharp. That is probably the mastering's engineer's fault but still... I don't listen to this stuff because it hurts my ears even at moderate levels. I would dread to hear this on a big PA. Ouch!
This is a reccuring theme in Psytrance. So many people have shot ears because of all the gigging, partying and festivals that alot of the stuff is mixed and mastered way too sharp.
UnderTow |
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
329
Posted : Apr 17, 2006 21:32
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I dont get the point anymore; and anyway, what is the point in discussing something without providing an objective coherent argument that is logically sound? Otherwise its just an oppinion.... and well, everyone has one of those... you want to hear mine?? Didnt think so...
Cytopia.org
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 17, 2006 22:03
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On 2006-04-17 21:32, cytopia wrote:
Otherwise its just an oppinion.... and well, everyone has one of those... you want to hear mine?? Didnt think so...
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I do. Pray tell, Sander.
UnderTow |
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
329
Posted : Apr 17, 2006 23:02
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okay ... yay... well my personal oppinion regarding analogue vs digital is based on limited experience, and on what i have been told by people with much more experience. An educated oppinion is interesting, since its not just the oppinion; the experience / evidence the oppinion is based on is of interest.
I often cannot tell the difference between analogue and digital; for example a friend of mine Prahlad got two NEVE channel strips, and they do rule, since they are simple, EQ and compression. He tested them by EQing and compressing some sounds, one of them was a kick; he then used only digi plugins to EQ and compress the same kick, it took much longer and was more complicated, but he ended up with a very similar sounding kick. I also just got a juno 106, and the sound is nice, but i think i can come close with some vsti's for leads and pads etc, but the juno 106 does have an amazing bass sound, that i have not been able to reproduce from vsti; i spent loads of time trying.
Mastering; I have heard good mastering done with purely digital plugin chains, Colin OOOD is an example. Bigger budget studios use analogue gear, for example 4CN use a custom built analogue EQ based on the "sontec / Massenburg MEP-250" and a Cranesong STC-8 compressor. Last year we had the same track mastered by Colin OOOD and Tim at 4CN, they were both good, but there was a huge difference in sound. Colin's master was a bit more clear and sharp, while the 4CN master was warmer sounding, especially the bass sounded much more warm in the 4CN master; which i asked about and Prahlad and Tim attribute this to running the sound through an analogue EQ and compressor.
Which sounded better is a matter of taste; the point being in some cases it seems there IS a significant difference between analogue and digital. Having said that the analogue gear 4CN use costs tons, and people can come a long way with digital plugins and instruments which cost a fraction of the price. In some cases digital comes very close, and in other cases perhaps some people can hear a difference.
I hope to combine both as i collect some analogue gear like the juno 106... i would like to give the studio electronics se1x a try, it is a moog like analogue synth, but the control is completely digital, best of both worlds perhaps...
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5Meo-Geo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
515
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 00:10
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cytopia now u put a rel mystery to the story....
coze if u claim the difference was so significant then i asume colin heard it aswell (after all he have good ears)
and since that happend why colin keep tell that there is no difference noticeble between the gear???
Jesus didnt dance,but his beat goes on
http://www.myspace.com/5me0ge0
PSYCHEDELIC-ZION |
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
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329
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 00:27
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I didnt give Colin the 4CN master of that particular track for comparison, but I did give him a master of another track.. it is a matter of taste which sound is preferable, but i am sure he can hear how the 4CN sound differs to his.
Having said that, I think the essence of what many people are trying to say in this thread is that in some conditions, vst instruments and plugins can come very close to analogue gear in terms of sound; so close that even a trained ear has hard time hearing difference.
To generalize either way is stupid IMO. In some cases like the mastering it made a noticable difference while in other conditions, like EQ and compressing the kick with NEVE or vsti's made no noticable difference...
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 02:17
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Thanks for your input Cytopia. As you say, it is often very hard to tell the difference and generalising either way is ridiculous.
As for the difference between the 4CN and Colin's mastering, it could be anything. The warmth in the C4N mastering could just be a touch of EQ at the right frequency, the CraneSong compressor (Yummieeee!) or it could indeed be the tone of the gear. It could also be the difference in monitoring and accoustics in the different studios combined with the different tastes of the engineers.
It's impossible to say without being in the studio and comparing the different gear side by side.
Btw, one of the most renown (if not THE most renown) mastering engineer uses Waves plugins in his mastering chain. People don't complain about the results that he achieves.
UnderTow
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 04:09
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i agree... tools don't make music... people do. |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 05:03
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I think one has to be careful not to put the differences between my mastering and 4CN's purely down to analog vs. digital; this would be simplifying to extremes. Tim undoubtedly has better monitoring in a better room with better equipment than me, and as Sander discovered I have to work harder to get as warm a sound as Tim achieves. In the end though we share the same aim - to make a track sound as good as possible on its intended medium - and it goes without saying that this is quite a subjective process. I make no claims other than I'm learning more about the process with every mastering job I do... and that I've been practising since I did the mastering he's talking about!
I believe a good engineer will be able to achieve similar results using either analog or digital equipment if they train their ears to recognise the subtleties of what they're listening to and learn their tools well enough. As far as mastering goes (and speaking with someone who hasn't really used analog tools to do the job) I believe that both analog and digital methods of working have their own slight advantages, some of which are broadly described by Sander's comparison of my and 4CNs mastering - however those can be compensated for if the engineer knows what they're doing.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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cytopia
Cytopia.org
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
329
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 11:40
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That's why I was so curious if you had used you're new analogue compressor in your mastering chain yet; just replacing the digi plugin with the analogue unit and keeping all other variables equal would be intersting regarding the discussion above But I guess it may only make a very subtle difference
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Prahlad
Prahlad
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
34
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 15:50
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Hello there
last year thru my work in a music shop I had the chance to get some "designed by Mr Neve Amek Channel In a Box" s cheap and ofcourse the temptation was too great. After a few months of use I must say that they sound friggin great and the interface is killer....analogue...you just dial up the setting switch the EQ in and bam....you hear whats off tweak it... done... 10 secs flat. I was a very happy camper and then stuff like Refined Audiometrics and Orange and Red eqs Hydratone and now Waves SSL started coming out of the woodworks.
To be very honest I have to backup Sander s post that i got very close to the Amek s sound using the PLP eq on many instances....too close for comfort because BOTH sound great. Yes the Ameks sound fatter on certain instruments, and do somethings which the plugins dont, but in the end I know now I could live without them. However EQ is the one process where we can expect todays digital equipment to keep up with analogue...compression is a whole different story.
The compressors on the Ameks put any "hi-end" VST plug to shame, so here they are worth every penny. In the end the portabilty of digital is for me the main reson to mostly use the PLP eq, but when it comes to my bass kick vocals and anything else i can be bothered to actually record in audio from start to finish u can be sure they re going through the CIB s! When im at home in my studio which I havent been for a while now!!! My advice if you want to go analogue get a killer versatile compressor and a fat deep synth (SE-1X?) for your bass. IMO there is no argument that well designed Analogue bass synths just have something down there which no VSTi or Virtual synth Ive heard so far can produce...u have to hear it but when u do youll know what i mean. Something magic about it, but then again thats just my taste In then end a good song will always sound better than a shity loop with 10k worth of outboard....Astrix“s first album>>>VB-1 anyone??? Peace www.inspired-sound.com
www.myspace.com/djprahlad
www.myspace.com/setsunatunez |
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14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 16:19
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On 2006-04-18 15:50, Prahlad wrote:
....Astrix“s first album>>>VB-1 anyone??? Peace
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Yeah that was shit, wasn't it?
I keep noticing though that people are more interested in the plastik cheap tones from the likes of vb-1, than any good analog synth.
All these years of the same shitty bassline has left a stamp on new aspiring producers that are not interested in anything else, besides what their ears are used to.
Me>You |
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
817
Posted : Apr 18, 2006 16:28
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On 2006-04-18 16:19, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
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On 2006-04-18 15:50, Prahlad wrote:
....Astrix“s first album>>>VB-1 anyone??? Peace
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Yeah that was shit, wasn't it?
I keep noticing though that people are more interested in the plastik cheap tones from the likes of vb-1, than any good analog synth.
All these years of the same shitty bassline has left a stamp on new aspiring producers that are not interested in anything else, besides what their ears are used to.
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it would be noted....that alot of really popular South African Artists use and have used vb1........
i am not going to mention any names...but i assure you .....name your favourite SA artist ....and they would have used VB 1 at some tim eor another or still is using VB1....
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