On 2006-04-21 13:48, e-motion wrote:
people you worry too much about production quality... try to fill your production time with making good music. this is ruining psy.
it's not analog or digital that matters... it's that note OR that note.
yeah well i talk about after u choose your notes
does guitarist that buy new expensive guitar automaticly play worse ?
undertones
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
165
Posted : Apr 23, 2006 17:28
Quote:
On 2006-04-22 16:28, e-motion wrote:
so production wise you're top notch and music wise you're still in the middle age? that's bad. or maybe you produce techno. there is no theory for that note or that note... only experience and dedication. if for you it's only a theory... again, you produce techno.
music theory only shows you the way... but you're the one that has to go along
i produce psychedelic trance not anything minimal. also music wise not only means notes but also arrangement, ideas, and everything else. that's what makes good music.
and yeah i say too much worry for good production and too few for good music ruins psy... you have a good example... hommega rec. also with many artists that were my favorites and now they have better production and worst music. but this is a personal thingie but i think much more agree with this.
ive learnt indian classical vocals for 10 yrs...so possibly im pretty good with my notes theory if you dont mind me saying so. of course, if ur material aint good, it doesnt matter how good ur production is...in that case, it doesnt even matter if ur using digital or analog gear at all...
this fellow doesnt know how to spell compressor but hear what he is able to do with a couple of cans...
anyone who says that music was better in the "good ol days" than it is now is chatting through the wrong hole. there was good music that was well produced relative to the technology available, and there was crap stuff too. just like it is today. lets be realistic...as far as dance music is concerned, things have certainly changed. technology has grown and music has become more complex, more psychedelic. if psy was about playing notes, ud be using a casio instead of a nord or a virus etc with n number of lfos, different synthesis methods for variety of sound, etc.
sure, i can sing a melody which could touch your heart. and in any case, do you remember a single melody in psy that has been more than 5 notes? why do you think thats the case..because its dance music we are talking about, not classical.
nobody is forgetting good music, dudes...but you cant make a dance track ultimately groovy, powerful without top notch production skills, no matter which technology you use, digital or analog. no matter how classically trained you are, no matter if its psy or techno or house.
im always open to change. put up your/some music and make me believe otherwise.
undertones
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
165
Posted : Apr 23, 2006 17:36
Quote:
On 2006-04-22 19:02, 5Meo-Geo wrote:
yuli thats true
content always more important than envelope
but in today world there is alot of audioPhooles that wouldnt care of the content if the envelope is not crystal shining....(and ive faced that kind of issues no once... i spend on mix close to 0 time amouth....yes i prefer to stay musician than soundman...and yet i sucsess to inspire some big artists in genre im in to with my music while fullon/dark artists friends come to me with comments like "the sound is shity" without noticing the music itself at all)
psytrance creations valued by its sound quality today and u already should of notice that...and here e-motion is 100% right....it ruined the whole genre...
u can create clasical creation music wise and yet noone will value it if the sound work is avarage-minus
dude, after going on and on about analog and digital gear and how plastik music sounds today, ur actually saying you spend no time on your mixdown? why the hell wouldnt you want your music to shine through? also, ur last line negates everything youve said before in the same post. are you actually for real? the way i see things, u have no clue about music production and just want to agree with everything anyone else says, just to increase ur posts so you can become a senior member on this forum and feel cool. take my advise and get a life.
hehe or to give a soundman to mak final mix very good friends of mine got themselves all the way to denmark to record with their favorite soundman , cause their music is so great and not good inough pro studio's in IL.
btw - they sell their debut album more then all trance realeses of full month together www.sattelbattle.com http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
5Meo-Geo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
515
Posted : Apr 23, 2006 21:45
Quote:
On 2006-04-23 17:36, undertones wrote:
dude, after going on and on about analog and digital gear and how plastik music sounds today, ur actually saying you spend no time on your mixdown? why the hell wouldnt you want your music to shine through? also, ur last line negates everything youve said before in the same post. are you actually for real? the way i see things, u have no clue about music production and just want to agree with everything anyone else says, just to increase ur posts so you can become a senior member on this forum and feel cool. take my advise and get a life.
all i have to say is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
dude the reason WHY i dont bother myself to do mixdowns is simply cose I DO BELIVE AND KNOW that i will NEVER get SOUND QUALITY THAT WILL SATISFY ME at my home
i have soundman degree and worked in recording studio and PA sound technitian (jst to clear for u my backgroung)
i dont like to waste my time on something that wont satisfy me
if i want to mix any of my tracks for release i take the project to studio and do all sound proccesing on analog gear + analog mixdown (each track gets channel-strip on console) and mix it as it should be mixed with some good soundmans ear for refference and not on pc with useless vst's/dx's
im seperating those 2 things totaly
when i write my tracks i dont waste my time for mixdowns and we was talking here about pc mixdows if im not mistaken
Jesus didnt dance,but his beat goes on
http://www.myspace.com/5me0ge0 PSYCHEDELIC-ZION
the input is 1khz-0dB signal
1st sample is logics compressor (RMS)
2nd sample is smartelectronics compressor
3rd sample waves C1
4th sample waves rcomp
5th,6th,7th is dbx266xl (one clear,one overeasy,one auto attack/release(dont hurt our testing)) (RMS)
all set to:
1ms attack
-20 dB treshold
4:1 ratio
0dB makeup (dbx is +10dB makeup but its also wont hurt our testing)
Host soft : Logic audio
now which one of the waves looks compressed to u and which one looks like its simply lowed the volume of a whole gain range of wave without giving a shit about ur treshold value ??? which one do u think will punch ur kick better???
who is clueless now biach ?????????
all ur years of learning teory and u never did such simple test????
i rest my case
P.S. i even dont bother to show ya SSL clone waveform cose u damn worthless ignorant c*nt
Jesus didnt dance,but his beat goes on
http://www.myspace.com/5me0ge0 PSYCHEDELIC-ZION
all i have to say is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
dude the reason WHY i dont bother myself to do mixdowns is simply cose I DO BELIVE AND KNOW that i will NEVER get SOUND QUALITY THAT WILL SATISFY ME at my home
Why come here and shit all over everything? You must know most people here use mostly digital instruments and plugins, and yet you insist that it is impossible get good sound with them. Kind of an arrogant stand you are taking.
I think bad music has more to do with the creator than the tools. Am sure plenty of people could make bad sounding tracks in a killer pro studio. And lucky you that you have access to killer studio for personal use, most people dont, so they do the best they can at home, and many do a really good job.
I dont disagree hardware compression may be better in some circumstances, but jesus man, no need to make a war about differences in oppinion.
It's like Forrest Gump's mother said "You just gotta do the best you can with what GOD gave you"
Cytopia.org
Psychedelic & Progressive Downloads
Mp3 / WAV CD Quality Downloads
Full Streamed Previews
all set to:
1ms attack
-20 dB treshold
4:1 ratio
0dB makeup (dbx is +10dB makeup but its also wont hurt our testing)
ehhh just so i get this right...are you saying 10dB !!! makeup gain wont make any difference on the recorded wave display if u put it on dbx comps only??? im actually surprised that the dbx waves ar so small compared to software comps ?!? u should use identucal settings on ALL controls for any pseudo experiemnt, and also remember some gear actually produces terrible waves just to look at but sound great!!! VB-1 anyone......
am just pushing your buttons my preferred bass synth is minimoog clone and analogue juno 106 mixed with a bit of virus dirt thru neve premamps with bass eq set to +15 db and compressor on -19 db compression with fast attack and slow release....try it it kicks like a mule ehhh basses i mean www.inspired-sound.com www.myspace.com/djprahlad www.myspace.com/setsunatunez
5Meo-Geo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
515
Posted : Apr 24, 2006 13:35
cytopia man i realy dont give a flying d*ck about what ppl use and what sound quality they acheeve at home....
this is analog/digital thread and thats what we talk about here and i bring my "little man" opinion about the issue here
and as u can c some ppl dont want to accept no different opinion but theirself thinking that if they've read some bob kaz book they know EVERYTHING
question been asked here and i giving prety OBJECTIVE point of view i think...cose althou i use almost fully digital equipment i know the limit's of this and bring it up for peoples attention
not calling this FACTS as placebo and dont call noone here as "clueless" or "u full of shit" and dont act like ignorant asshole
yes there is a placebo and the placebo is in digital equipment not in analog
i cant call this "envelop generators" as compressors
i think this simple example should show ya guys what r u actualy getting when u use them
and i can keep trowing here simular examples adout almost each fx/dynamic/proccess
i hope some ppl will maybe pay attention and actualy learn their equipment properties coze its obvious that some ppl dont have real idea what are they doing
u can full your head with tons of theory and still it will be useless if u wont try it
this test toke me 15 mins to do and 1st time i did it i actualy begon to realise how much digital equipment "lies" to u
another thing man....
some ppl here call them selfs "professional" artists
that means they make living from their music
i belive at that stage of production u already can afford even this kind of crapy dbx (it cost like half of what pro-atrist ask for 1 gig) but again its my opinion
no offence but im realy not wondering anymore why psytrance sceene looks like its looks today...
amatures rules it
Jesus didnt dance,but his beat goes on
http://www.myspace.com/5me0ge0 PSYCHEDELIC-ZION
5Meo-Geo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
515
Posted : Apr 24, 2006 13:37
Prahlad notice the peaks of the sine waves
thats the compression
it have nothing to do with makeup gain
makeup just clipped the attack part that is not that important in this test
zoom in moreJesus didnt dance,but his beat goes on
http://www.myspace.com/5me0ge0 PSYCHEDELIC-ZION
Im still of the opinion gear is no substitute for inspiration, hell i know what GMS made their first album on, 4 things: mac G3 prophecy S-3000 O2r thats it... i was there, nothing to do with outboard and pristine qualtiy and production....everything to do with purpose and inspiration
www.inspired-sound.com www.myspace.com/djprahlad www.myspace.com/setsunatunez
that means u need to get final result (i think) of -15db.
1st sample is logics compressor (RMS)
this one seem to do it great
2nd sample is smartelectronics compressor
this one get more volume then wanted. (bad)
3rd sample waves C1
seems pritty ok too. pritty much like logic's.
4th sample waves rcomp
seems it made the whole file incl. attact quiter , too much quite
5th dbx266xl
seems oki concider the +10db makeup.
the point is not to make maximum level but honest compression.
without +10db makeup seems just like c1 and logic comp.appart it had made some kind of stareo diffrence (bad?) , and its attack behave diffrent(u get -10db on the attack without needed.reminding the Rcomp.)
defintly made the biggest dynamic diffrence , im not so sure its that great of outcome tho. the makeup does something not realy honest for testing.
6th dbx266xl
same as 5th
7th is dbx266xl
is getting higher volume then desired.
remind the smartelectronics comp.
