| Author
|
analog shmanalog
|
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 08:29
|
i hear this too much so please let me fil you in with a little something and please i will start from the end.
cd is digital media - not analog like vinyl or audio cassette.
computer recordings are made in digital way - not actually recording the electric signal but simulate it exacly.
any vst/nord/virus/waldorf Q / microkorg etc. are digital synths that emulate the old analog synths (like moog tb303 and any synth that realy generate sound from electric signal) all those digital synths realy have inside is dsp based soundcard
so as long u didnt recorded real analog synth into real analog recording (tape) and press it on vynil.. its actualy pure digital quality.. u can make half way by using analog tools and press it on cd then it gets digital media anyway and u loose the real warmth of analog signal.
please make your opinion and correct me if im wrong.
  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
|
|
|
orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 08:35
|
i can point a realy different way to produce analog sound!
take a synth that loads bitmap images as waves in hes osc
then draw a picture with your hand and crayions to a paper,scan the picture with your scanner,convert the scanned pic into a bitmap image and load it to the osc...
isnt that an analog waveform? nothing digital or even electric in the process of making it!
damn im clever 
orange
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
|
|
|
hip
Shuma
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
404
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 09:55
|
Hey tsabeat, that is very interesting topic!
I also have one question:
When you, for example, listen to music from cds on your computer, isn't it true that it gets converted to analogue sound?
I mean, if you have monitors connected to your soundcard with a cable, then its analog sound at the end, i think.
Maybe some expert on this can answer us, I'm looking forward to learn more on this interesting subject.
Cheers
|
|
|
|
Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 09:58
|
You can still catch analog oscilators recorded on digital media. Since digital media is recording sound - in high resolution, it has nothing to do with the analog way of producing a wave.
You're mixing up a few issues here.
And about the synths, Nord and Virus are virtual analog synths, they simulate analog circuits using their dsp chips, and also the knobs are voltage-dynamic. Waldorf is all digital (unique designed).
About VSTi there's nothing to add.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
|
|
|
Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 10:01
|
hip,
Most speakers are producing the sound analogicly - but that is bare reproduction of what is coming through the cables.
Saying "analog" is like saying "electrical" - saying digital is like saying "0101101 computer stuff".
There are alot of things that work this and that way - while in our domain we mostly emphasize the way a sound/wave is born (odc) or recorded (tape).
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
|
|
|
gaianide
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
34
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 10:05
|
tsabeat:
"u can make half way by using analog tools and press it on cd then it gets digital media anyway and u loose the real warmth of analog signal."
Just because you record anologue digitally it doesn't mean you lose the "anologue sound" it's just now in a digital format. Just as if a synths original sound production process is digital and you record it onto tape, it's not going to convert the synth sound to an anologue sounding synth....I think basically Trip^ covers it. |
|
|
|
Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 16:23
|
Phil - Nord and Virus are ALSO all digital. Their controls are also digitised. The only differences between these, the Waldorf and VSTis are the algorithms used to calculate the sounds they make, and the DSP/computer hardware they run on.
Orang - sorry mate but as soon as you scan something in or use a program on a computer to do something, it's digital.
Let's get this straight. When it comes out of the sockets on the back of a synth, all sound is analog (continuously varying voltage). Only synths with an all-analog internal signal path can be called 'analog' though; everything else either uses hybrid circuitry (eg. Roland Juno 6 with digital oscillators and analog filters etc.) or pure digital techniques with a DAC to convert the final numbers into an analog signal.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
|
|
|
Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 16:49
|
I was almost sure that there's an ADC on the Nord between the knobs and the "brain".
Thanks for the clearing up.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
|
|
|
Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 18:16
|
|
FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 18:30
|
I´ve just started experimenting connecting a synth (a nord lead 2 in this case) to a guitar cabinet and miking the cabinet with several mics to get a nice sound of the reflections in the room and make it "more real". Still on experimental phase will let you know some results in future if you´re interested 
boomz
|
|
|
|
tribalizer
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
115
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 19:07
|
kewl, keep us posted on this one, Fluoro...
as for the first question, i should point that if you record digitaly the output of a analogue source, then you will somewhat capture the quaracteristic of this analogue sound, compared to the digital recording of a digital source, witch will be...well...purely digital.
It wont be as "analogue" as printing your TB303 on tape, but the more BITS of amplitude and the higher the SAMPLE RATE of the converters on your soundcard, the better your capture of the analogue caracter of your analogue source.
i hope i understood your question right.
|
|
|
|
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 20:21
|
well may be i forgot to mention the fact that viniyl is constant information - exaly the electric pulse produced by the band in the studio.
while digita (32bit 196 khz) is very high resolution but yes millions of bits of information.. no pulse.
its like see peaple on reality compare to see them thru web cam.abviously u know there are good cammera's and good net connection .. but yet to reproduce good picture in quality of reality.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
|
|
|
UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 22:26
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-04-05 09:58, Trip- wrote:
And about the synths, Nord and Virus are virtual analog synths, they simulate analog circuits using their dsp chips, and also the knobs are voltage-dynamic.
|
|
Actually they don't. The Access and Nord synths model the sound but not the components of analogue synths. There are very few processes that actually model real analogue components.
I think the Alesis Ion, some of the stuff from Korg and Yamaha are the only ones that actually model components. (Not usre about the Ion actually). You can be quite sure that anything coming from a small company doesn't do this as it is very hard and thus expensive to do.
Quote:
|
Waldorf is all digital (unique designed).
|
|
Well that depends which Waldorf. I have a Pulse+ which has a DCO and an analogue filter. They also did a special edition of the Q which had analogue filters. (A pitty they never realised that their analogue filters sounded so crap. They might have survived otherwise ...)
Now, having said all that, real analogue oscilators and filters do sound different compared to digital stuff. It doesn't matter that you record this into a digital system. It is about the way the sound is generated. Not the medium used to record it.
Wether analogue components sound better or worse than digital stuff is a matter of taste. I like a mix of both.
UnderTow
|
|
|
|
UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 22:34
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-04-05 20:21, tsabeat wrote:
well may be i forgot to mention the fact that viniyl is constant information - exaly the electric pulse produced by the band in the studio.
|
|
Hmmm no. Not even close to what was produced in the studio. Vinyl has a very limited dynamic range, frequency range and signal to noise ratio. If you want to get anywhere near reproducing what was capture by the microphone or DI box, you better use digital.
Analogue tape comes close if you don't mind all the noise and hiss but even tape has a limited dynamic range and signal to noise ratio. Digital can offer a more accurate reproduction.
Quote:
|
while digita (32bit 196 khz) is very high resolution but yes millions of bits of information.. no pulse.
|
|
Funny you use the word pulse. Digital sampling systems (ADCs and DACs) use sync pulses. Analogue stuff doesn't use pulses at all. They use continuous voltage signals converted into physical analoguous signals. magnetic flux for tape and physical space for vinyl.
UnderTow |
|
|
|
sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Apr 5, 2006 22:36
|
is this a vsti vs hardware flame war? 
roll a joint or STFU :) |
|
|
|
