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An insight in2 melodies and psy
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
356
Posted : Sep 25, 2006 16:54
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Or better yet, don't make any set rules and let each track evolve naturally, adding what it needs, but it chords, chord progressions, key changes, shifting basslines or whatever. Whenever I make tracks, about my only rule is that I will try to do at least one new production technique I haven't used before and I'll try one new musical "theory" something I haven't done before.
  New Album: Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity
Available for free at http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/jikkenteki-flights-of-infinity/
PAR-2 Productions http://www.par-2.com |
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jivamukti
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
342
Posted : Sep 25, 2006 20:15
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-25 16:47, djzed wrote:
Because psytrance is a layered approach, it is better associated with polyphony (which means each instrument has equal importance) rather than one instrument being the main focus and the rest accompaniment (as would be in the case of a pop song, for example).
Let the chords emerge from the melodies!
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At least my ears interpret one or two of multiple simultaneous sounds (or sound sequences) as being the main ones, and the rest as accompaniment, paying more attention to the former. I think the brain needs to categorise sounds that way so as not to suffer a sensory overload.
When rain dries, clouds form.
When clouds moisten, rain forms. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Sep 25, 2006 21:28
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I think one weakness of trance is the independent layering of instruments. instead of introducing interaction between layers which makes the track sound much more pro, most of psy just introduces new leads which are compatible, instead of enhancing the previous ones in2 a larger picture.
what would b nice if if artists created their tracks in such a way that a full WOW melody would only b apparent when the layers are all present.
Possibly examples would b multiple basses working 2gethr, or multiple leads with a noisy ones etc. Not that this doesnt already happen, I just think it doesnt happen enuf.
Then again maybe its just a question of style.
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Sep 25, 2006 22:40
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-25 20:15, jivamukti wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-09-25 16:47, djzed wrote:
Because psytrance is a layered approach, it is better associated with polyphony (which means each instrument has equal importance) rather than one instrument being the main focus and the rest accompaniment (as would be in the case of a pop song, for example).
Let the chords emerge from the melodies!
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At least my ears interpret one or two of multiple simultaneous sounds (or sound sequences) as being the main ones, and the rest as accompaniment, paying more attention to the former. I think the brain needs to categorise sounds that way so as not to suffer a sensory overload.
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That's when you're sober  The nice thing is that multiple simultaneous melodies (also happens with delaylines) can sometimes be perceived at the same time when you're high. It helps when you let one melody play a bit louder in one bar (like in a question and answer style composition) and the other simultaneous melody a bit louder in the next bar so you can also focus on both, but at different times, even when you're sober, yeah ! (i did that in this track in several parts: http://download.yousendit.com/318132AB4B467F58 ). |
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djzed
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
48
Posted : Sep 26, 2006 08:36
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-25 20:15, jivamukti wrote:
At least my ears interpret one or two of multiple simultaneous sounds (or sound sequences) as being the main ones, and the rest as accompaniment, paying more attention to the former. I think the brain needs to categorise sounds that way so as not to suffer a sensory overload.
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In my favourite psy tracks every single layer is interesting, including each percussion track, the bass, every little noise and the melodies. What I love about this style is each time you listen to a (good) track you can get something new out of it depending on what you choose to focus your attention on. You can focus on individual instruments, or you can focus on the "whole".
There's a shpongle track I've probably listened to 50 times over the last year - just the other day I played it again and I heard something I've never heard before because I decided to focus my attention on a new layer. It was awsome!
And Boobytrip - I agree that being high helps you percieve the individual layers 
Sorry, the topic seems to be slipping away from melodies... |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Sep 28, 2006 00:56
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Aight, ahem... let's stay on topic
If you go for a harmonic type of approach|: when you listen to the same chord progression (I-IV-V) in different keys (C, D, E, etc.), the key seems to give an important twist to the feel of the chord sequence. But the sound of the bassline only sounds good in a few keys. Maybe it's a good idea to first find the keys in which the bassline sounds good and then decide on the chord progression ?
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 28, 2006 01:22
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that sounds limiting Boobytrip, im sure you can find a way to make a baseline sound good and fit the chord progression.. please expand your thoughts,
i start thinking about drones(or what should i call them?) fitting different keys so you only have to change when its real dissonance between the drone and the melody... hmm someone care to expand on this, hehe..
Boobytrip -
cool track of yours, funky and retro sound, i dig it.
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Sep 28, 2006 09:13
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Boobytrip are u saying that u have perfect pitch, because thats the only way u can tell the difference between a relative motion in a key with respect to the same relative motion in a different key.(And even then Im told its a difference of "colour" of keys)Most audio engineers are required to have relative pitch, but not perfect pitch, and relative pitch serves them just fine.
If u feel that the bass is best at a certain pitch then u should pivot ur harmonies around that pitch.
I also dont see how this is limiting in trance unless u intend to have more complex harmonies.
Having said that, it does seem like bass synthesis is tricky, and Iv found that getting the correct keyboard tracking is critical in getting a bass to sound equally expressive over a number of keys.Even so the filter resonance just sounds too slow at lower pitches. but if u dont want a high end in your bass then this obviously is not a problem.
Also any synthesized instrument might have a sweet spot thats not in your key and it is a constant juggling act 2 balance them all out.
But theoretically I dont see the limitations arising from the harmony aspect.
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Sep 28, 2006 15:57
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@ Bukboy: nope, i don't have perfect pitch: i can maybe guess just above chance level  But because my studio is offline for some time and can't make tracks right now, i was working out some examples from "the complete idot's guide to music theory" and made the same chord progression in several keys to hear if i could hear the difference if i compared these progressions. And indeed, they have a different colour. That's why i came up with this stupid question
I also agree with New Era Scientist that it would be very limiting to work within these kinds of constraints. Thanks for your remarks on the track Btw., it probably sounds retro because it's old.
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Sep 28, 2006 16:38
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BoobyTrip Would you try an experiment? record the different progressions(same midi data). and then see if u can identify them on random in winamp.
Only on the 1st guess tho.
If u still can identify your favourite one Id like u 2 upload them so we can all argue about this.
I cannot explain Y u would prefer one over another any more than I could explain Y u would choose one colour over another (green yellow or red).Which is what is involved with pitch colour discrimination.
I strongly suspect that the patches behave differently at different pitches and thats Y they sound better. |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Sep 28, 2006 17:31
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Ghehe... No problem, i'll try it with a patch of pure, synched, sinewaves.
It'll probably sound horrible, but maybe it's worth the effort
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Sep 28, 2006 23:53
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http://download.yousendit.com/6A4F2EB707435549
In the zip-file you can find mp3's of the same IV-I-IV-V progression in the keys of C, D, E, F, G, A, B plus the cubase project file i used to create them with. You can load them into winamp and listen to them blindly. I could not identify them, but my favorites are: D and C because to me they sound the best.
You can do the same by using the same chord progression and detuning the oscillators of the synth.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 29, 2006 00:15
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Boobytrip - you should have made a better sound, hehe
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shachar
Basic
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
402
Posted : Sep 29, 2006 01:22
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most of trance music stay monotonic because it creates the meditive state. harmonic change once in a while can create the sense of change and movment toward the return to the original bass.
a chord dont have to be played from the same instrument. like a bass thats playing the tonic note and two diferent synth are playing the 5th and the 7th for example.
picking the right scale its cruial! every tone got its own Color and Frequeincies and on bass you can feel this more because the lower you go, more upper-tones can be heard.
drone is a musical term for low & repeating phrase usually one or two notes. imagine the soure of this - two low timpany drums set to diferent notes playing repeatitly and on top of this diferent vocalists and instrument are adding melodies .
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Sep 29, 2006 03:24
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Boy am I lost in this thread. I think you all lost me at post number two but I'm probably being optimistic and you really lost me at post Nr 1.
djzed, can you tell me in what Key/Scale/Chord this is in: http://home.casema.nl/ajohnston/Loki-Monster_Pro-33.mp3
I have no clue. I know I start at that white note on the piano roll and then errr ... some other notes. 
(It's work in progress. The main melody that comes in half way in needs some variation. Just havn't gotten round to it yet).
Cheers,
UnderTow |
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