Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 11:16:34
Sorry for asking this stupid question
,could anyone gíve an simple explanation how
to build up an psy trance song.
I would be realy thankful for any help.
I get stuck everytime i try to make one.
Tricossoma
Tricossoma
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 12:58
hey man.
If you google a litle you gonna see how many information you can get from it.
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 16:07
you can work just on your beat , make few paterns with different bassline and beat sequences...then bounce all this to audio , i mean you get just a stereo audio file and not each track separetly .
start a new project ,sequence all the bounce you just did so you get your 8 minutes long and set the flow/plan of the track ,then write sound on top.great workflow to make a track in 2 days , if you have inspiration it will rox if not it will sux..also working with all the beat in audio ,with almost everyhting in a stereo file is a big plus for tricks.
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 16:16
If you listen to your favourite tunes, you'll get the answers you seek.
No offence to the OP but there are some threads on here, with questions that make you wonder if the people that are having a go at making trance tunes, actually EVER listened to trance music?
Oni Katsu
Li/fe
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 18:14
Quote:
On 2010-12-23 16:16, disco hooligans wrote:
there are some threads on here, with questions that make you wonder if the people that are having a go at making trance tunes, actually EVER listened to trance music?
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 20:17
I still got a question... while I know how a basic trance song is structured (into, breakdowns. etc.) i wonder what your thought process is like, when writing tunes. talking to all of you guys.
Often, I find myself struggling with psy, because I tend to think like a classical composer. Once I got the rhythmic elements going, I use to think "Well, lets put a lead sound on it" and it turns out as a melody going over 32 bars or something. And then, what to do? "What about a second lead?" and so on...and before I know it, I have a classical 90s trance tune. When listening to stuff like Zen Mechanics, there are some melodic elements, but they are pretty sparse. There are a lot of sound FX and very small sounds, which would be uninteresting on their own, but work together to provide a tight groove. Do you think it is all planned out, like I would write my melodies? Or is it mainly experimentation with lots of different sounds, until something good comes out of it? How do you go about it?
Trevon
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 20:30
I like to analize released tracks. here's an example
the sections name is not conventional but it's the easiest way to me.
ableton markers are great
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 20:56
Oh i see your problem, well first we would have to know what kind of psytrance are you into... if it is zen mechanics then yes, melodic content is minimum. Reserved for high intensity parts of the track.
I think everyone has a different approach to develop sections but here is mine.
Lets imagine you have your 32 bar melody part. You have to think backwards on how would you get to that climax, so create the parts before it.
You can have your basic bassline + perc combo for the start then slowly introduce new elements, maybe some notes which intervals belong to the main theme, lots of fly by fx (zen mechanics like), stabby synths and wooshes... then a rising note (goldray xD ) and you can maybe filter bassline out and introduce the melody but not the full 32 bars but maybe a 1 or 2... then snare roll, crashes... losts of white noise with high resonance LP + LFO ammount so it oscillates, then kick 1 bar of suspense, throw clever samples and breaking stuff samples (so you have a nice break XD), or any kind of creative hits, voice, chords, etc and then just drop the full bassline + melody (or you can just drop bassline and then rise to melody again)... another nice one before a drop is to take a whole bar of the melody and apply a sweeping highpass filter so it resonates in a cool way before dropping beat again, you can then release melody or just automate delay wetness with high feedback amount to let it bounce over new section
Well this is just what i came up with while writing, but you must find your own method.
To avoid the classical 90s trance sound: STAY AWAY FROM PRESETS. Use more acid like sounds, learn to layer leads... and one important one: stay within the non-cheesy melody range. Don't use predictable chord progressions with supersaw leads rather compose more hypnotic psytrancey leads unless ur going the Goa way in which you can create rich melodies using arpeggios in strange scales (phrygian cough cough), automate LFO to filter cutoff with the right ammount and rate always gives the psy-feeling. 32 bar melodyes are a little far from the Zen Mechanics sound for example, try 1,2 or 4 bar melodies that only have small variations.
Another great tip is the famous question - answer synth arrange before releasing full melody.
Hope something of this helps u out.
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 21:05
Quote:
There are a lot of sound FX and very small sounds, which would be uninteresting on their own, but work together to provide a tight groove. Do you think it is all planned out, like I would write my melodies? Or is it mainly experimentation with lots of different sounds, until something good comes out of it? How do you go about it?
Yes it is planned out, in fact many "artist" do nothing but this, no melody, no story no nothing but techy glitchy shit; import any sample you like from CDs, recordings, movie rips, etc... then just arrange into clever positions + fx to create atmospheres of intricate bits of audio snippets and percussion.
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 21:41
if i understand what he is looking for it s like in techno exept in psytrance it s different kind of sounds used imo but it s same process to build a groove,in techno they use more percussive sound that answer to each other ,in psytrance you can use trance sound (and the percussion too) ... easy way is to make a groovy synth line then use like 3 or 4 different synths patchs to play only few note of that line . for example first synth play first note, scond synth play 2 and the 5 notes, 3 synths play the 2 and 4 note..all synth with a different patch.you get the common rolling groove you can find in some oldschool full on and don t forget to use a cheesy stab and a tb 303 in there hehe jk , to get that goove going on is not easy but when it s there it s very effective.
what i describe you can hear it in this track,it give stuff like that but not sure it s what you re asking for ..might still help to get some ideas
Dv2
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 23:08
Yes, thanks for the input Aciduss and PoM. Lots of good tips there, you are always helpful Aciduss. The way you describe it is exactly how I try to work, but sometimes it*s hard letting go of old customs. 32 bars was a bit overexaggerated btw ^^
I don*t use presets and I don*t make cheesy melodies, but the outcome is still too melodic and conventional for me. However, it helps a lot to read somebody else*s description/concept. Anything to hammer it into my head
Also, PoM, thanks for the tip with the 3-4 synths sharing the notes of one melody, haven*t really thought of it. That Vibe Tribe song is pretty close to the sound I like.
Trevon
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 23:33
Quote:
On 2010-12-23 21:05, aciduss wrote:
Quote:
There are a lot of sound FX and very small sounds, which would be uninteresting on their own, but work together to provide a tight groove. Do you think it is all planned out, like I would write my melodies? Or is it mainly experimentation with lots of different sounds, until something good comes out of it? How do you go about it?
Yes it is planned out, in fact many "artist" do nothing but this, no melody, no story no nothing but techy glitchy shit; import any sample you like from CDs, recordings, movie rips, etc... then just arrange into clever positions + fx to create atmospheres of intricate bits of audio snippets and percussion.
going back on the topic
the sound of zen mechanics has progressive influences. I wouldn't call it prog because is 140bmp and higher.
most of progressive isn't very melodicaly rich.
Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Dec 23, 2010 23:46
Quote:
On 2010-12-23 20:30, Trevon wrote:
I like to analize released tracks. here's an example
the sections name is not conventional but it's the easiest way to me.
but it's the easiest way to me.
