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Ambient mastering, whom would you choose to do it?
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andrew interchill
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
435
Posted : Mar 29, 2010 02:25
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Moreno - yes Jake Perrine is really good.
Mau - Nobody would want a label manager mastering their music, unless of course it was Vince. best to leave specialised jobs to the experts. Interesting to read of your experiences with some of the greats. Where would you master if money was no object - The Exchange ?
Some people may read your posts and think they should follow your example and master their own stuff. They likely would not have your experience - what advice would you have for the would be DIY mastering person. apologies for not reading this topic before asking you similar questions on another topic.
I think one key thing to consider is to choose a mastering person who will be flexible with revisions - and ideally include these in the price.
When needed, Dave Blackman has gone back into sessions several times and reworked the audio until the artist was happy and signed off on the master. None of the other artists who have worked with him via us have given a negative report of this work.
There's also the question of how much to spend - for most people this is a consideration. Hiltongrove are 500GBP an album.
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xuam
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
53
Posted : Mar 29, 2010 11:31
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-29 02:25, andrew interchill wrote:
Moreno - yes Jake Perrine is really good.
Mau - Nobody would want a label manager mastering their music, unless of course it was Vince. best to leave specialised jobs to the experts. Interesting to read of your experiences with some of the greats. Where would you master if money was no object - The Exchange ?
Some people may read your posts and think they should follow your example and master their own stuff. They likely would not have your experience - what advice would you have for the would be DIY mastering person. apologies for not reading this topic before asking you similar questions on another topic.
I think one key thing to consider is to choose a mastering person who will be flexible with revisions - and ideally include these in the price.
When needed, Dave Blackman has gone back into sessions several times and reworked the audio until the artist was happy and signed off on the master. None of the other artists who have worked with him via us have given a negative report of this work.
There's also the question of how much to spend - for most people this is a consideration. Hiltongrove are 500GBP an album.
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@ the Exchange for sure !
I do not advise to master your own productions...I do it sometimes but for necessity and not for choice.
if you do a DIY mastering...take your time...do it a couple of weeks after the mix...maye get drunk...forget that this is your music...and use only the plug ins that you know very well...avoid Multiband compression and thos LOUD&PROUD presets...EQ wisely and lightly (ear training with freq)...
do not try to have a BRICK waveform as final result...and always do an appropriate A/B test...adjunsting the db differences of the 2 sources...be careful to not smash the transients and kill the dynamics.
Listen to your own productions in another studio with different speakers...test it everywhere...in the car...on shit stereos...mono...on the headphones...anywhere...in a room full of ppl who are talking loud (yes).
many albums do not need mastering anyway...or they just need very light adjustments.
mastering is a bit like developing an analog photographic film...many interpretations can be done.
if you don't have any budget it is better to ask to a friend...who has experience, lots of patience and time...and loves your music...
this is why Greg (who is for sure better and has much more experience than me...and better ears) asked my help for Future Dust.
btw...greg did an exellent job mastering the Lingua Lustra ambient album just released by Bak$hish music.
most mastering studios have a very disorienting atmosphere...not friendly...and you are amazed looking at those expensive toys with big knobs...
the guy is in a rush...the $$$ are runnign fast...and off course your material will sound better there on those BIG speakers in a hitek soundproof room...
until you go back home...then you might have a nasty surprise.
ps.Greg Hunter came with me at the Hilton Groove to master Viceversa...and he shares my opinions about it...and the input he gave to mr Blackman was ignored by him.
ps2. forgot to mention Jack Perrine...I never met him but I have been very happy with his job...especially on Bleeding for Africa on Peak records comp. |
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Luca@BlueHourSounds
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
163
Posted : Mar 29, 2010 17:02
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Like i expected, it seems that artists are the real key to make the difference here.
The final mix quality helps a lot the master.
But still i don't get the point.
Of course anyone can prefer one master from another.
But shouldn't be a common kind of goal to reach while you do the master?
I mean (as a dj), why am i so often finding music from different masters
that on the mixer sounds so different about final volumes?
Are the gain knobs always to be in different position while you dj?
It happens so often that mixes are not spreading the energy they should because level are so different!
Does it make sense?
 Right above my unreal
http://www.bluehoursounds.com
http://soundcloud.com/luca-bluehoursounds |
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andrew interchill
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
435
Posted : Mar 29, 2010 20:57
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how loud the final master should be is also a matter of taste which is why it can vary. final control using the gains, yes.
nice info Mau... a useful guideline |
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kukan-dub-lagan/ItaiTaiko
kukan-dub-lagan/ItaiTaiko
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
1728
Posted : Mar 31, 2010 01:38
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xuam
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
53
Posted : Mar 31, 2010 17:24
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-29 17:02, Luca@BlueHourSounds wrote:
But still i don't get the point.
Of course anyone can prefer one master from another.
But shouldn't be a common kind of goal to reach while you do the master?
I mean (as a dj), why am i so often finding music from different masters
that on the mixer sounds so different about final volumes?
Are the gain knobs always to be in different position while you dj?
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you see...gain are controls and they are there to be used...as EQ...
imagine if all the music had the same volume (all the time), sounded the same...and even had the same bpm...how boring it would be.
the fact is that the music industry spoiled and hypnotized the listeners and tried very hard to UNIFORM music...and the media palyers.
uniform the style
uniform the sound
uniform the bpm
uniform the volume too
uniform taste
then...here we are in the age where the word Production is very overused and took over the quality and the content of the message of the music itself.
a good tune will not be played if is not well produced (and mastered)...and if it doesn't sound loud as the others...and djs become lazy...and do not like anymore to move the controls on the mixer...
so...at the end of the day...music...like ppl...is cool and it is judged mainly from the exterior aspect and the outlook.
that off course is expensive.
then again...listeners become snob...and music makers become producers (I hate this word...music is not a product...it is immaterial)
good production...FAT sound...
is this what is all about ?
and the details and the different shades are lost on the way...instant gratification for the masses.
here a list of some of the quietest artists :
(oohhh...look who is on top)
Artist dB
Brian Eno -17.52
Leonard Cohen -16.24
Norah Jones -15.75
Tori Amos -15.23
Jeff Buckley -15.21
Neil Young -14.51
Damien Rice -14.33
Lou Reed -14.33
Cat Stevens -14.22
Bon Iver -14.14
Enya -14.13
The Velvet Underground -14.05
Simon & Garfunkel -14.03
Pink Floyd -13.96
Ben Harper -13.94
Aphex Twin -13.93
Grateful Dead -13.85
and here some useful links:
http://www.monolake.de/interviews/mastering.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
http://musicmachinery.com/2009/03/23/the-loudness-war/
ciao
(someone said...music is the silence between the sounds) |
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Luca@BlueHourSounds
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
163
Posted : Mar 31, 2010 17:44
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Thank you for this really interesting list (great to see Jeff Buckley right up there close to the top).
yes Maux, i do agree with you.. I'm asking myself even if i ever liked to dj in general,
because i have been truly interested in the creative side of the music.
For sure to have a various range of final products make the music coloured as a rainbow.
My question was technical, because in the end i just finished the second mastering session of my life,
and i do realize that to UNIFORM the music that comes from an artist to another is kind of unrespectful and violent.
And i also thought that when the 'gain' knob on a mixer tends extremely to a higher volume,
the real effect of the music could be not so faithful with the original intentions of the track itself.
In general compilations are not cool at all when you fit together too many various musicians.
Once i would really like to be present in a studio, to discuss about the mastering stuff.
So.. i received tracks that were playing -3.. but here i see people with -17.. And i never thought it would have been possible!
Low volume and great music is mostly my goal..
i simply adore when the music spread the frequencies all over
without being 'loud' but still being seriously there! 
Right above my unreal
http://www.bluehoursounds.com
http://soundcloud.com/luca-bluehoursounds |
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xuam
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 31, 2010 17:49
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from the interview of Robert Henke with Rashad Becker:
Volume :
Volume is a pain in the ass, the listening volumes everywhere... it's gross. But the hunt for loudness is a real pity. It makes music more and more comparable, it removes a lot of narration, it removes a lot of information, both from the music making process and from the music perception!
By producing music that's always aiming for maximum loudness you don't give people good reasons anymore to properly listen to the music. And that will retroactively shape the reasons for making music, and that will lead to a situation where all music is kind of exchangeable.
And that's a real pity, I reckon. I try with my mastering to give people a reason for not only listen to their music on their PowerBook speakers! Clients do tell me that it needs to sound good on PowerBook speakers. When all music is made in that manner, is made to fit the technique the music is played back with, then all music will be shaped from the same wood after a couple of years.
And I can understand that people don't take the effort anymore to get proper hi-fi systems, because they're just not given the reasons to do so anymore. I think the general evaluation of musical products suffers from that. Like also the total availability; you don't have to go searching for music that you're interested in anymore. Music became even more push media, it's not music on demand anymore. |
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xuam
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 31, 2010 17:54
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btw...in the list above you need to read the db values not as maximum peak vaues but as dynamic ranges values.
so a -17 doesn't mean that the max peak of the track is at -17 but that there are 17 db of difference between the lowest peak and the highest peak.
(dynamic range is the difference between max and min)
most electronic music this days goes between -4 and -8
I try to keep the dynamic range value at -12
i hope that was clear enough |
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Upavas
Upavas
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150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Apr 2, 2010 10:28
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kukan-dub-lagan/ItaiTaiko
kukan-dub-lagan/ItaiTaiko
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
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Posted : Apr 2, 2010 11:03
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check Peerless mastering
and there is more - they just cost big time
Check out my music page - free music , new style and more :) |
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Upavas
Upavas
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150
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3315
Posted : Jun 21, 2011 02:58
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spatialize
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
59
Posted : Jun 22, 2011 13:39
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for ambient music people could check matt hillier (ishq) out. he's mastered many an ambient album, has some lush outboard gear and all of the high range mastering plugs. i feel sure that he would be a reasonable price too. |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
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Posted : Jun 22, 2011 19:47
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I don't pay much attention to all this fuss about mastering. I've had people tell me how much they love some of my songs that I felt were mixed like total shite and unmastered.
Per recommendation I went to Twerk @ Audible Oddities to master a couple tracks that I self released through tunecore, and I really like what he did. Mainly I had them mastered for my own personal gratification. I liked the tracks so much that I wanted to hear what they would sound like "professionally mastered." I'm not a sound snob, so I can't get into any technicalities of what's different but the wave form is still interesting visually, not just a "brick" as some are saying, and it sounds very warm and present. the tracks I gave to him were quite electro-acoustic so I don't think any of the ambient mastering dudes would have done as well with it as compared to Twerk who has lots of experience with both electronic artists and bands.
Aside from that, I mix my tracks very soft and then just turn up the master at the end so its peaking just below 0db. works for me; people still like the tracks. the casual listener has no idea that its "unmastered" and "unprofessional." Frankly, I don't see the big deal. if someone is browsing through underground music like mine they're already cured of the addiction to loud mastered tracks.
so "whatever," I say. if you're music is just okay, then it will always be just okay no matter what you do to the final version. if you're music kicks ass, then it will kick ass whether mastered or not.
Wu-Tang Clan's "36 Chambers" is still my favorite hip hop album of all time and the tracks are quiet, gritty, mucky, and "unprofessional" sounding. but no one cares...the tracks are sick, so who gives a fuck? just turn up the volume on your sound system
http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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