| Author
|
Am I just biased?
|
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 22:41:36
|
This is in no way intended to bash on other genres of music, it is simply an observation I have made as a music producer and listener.
Does it seem like compared to psytrance many other genres of music seem "basic". Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy all types of electronic music, but I fail to see any difficulty to making some. Progressive/prog house seems like a very simple composition of 5 sounds (I love progressive, but there doesn't seem to be much "to" it). Techno is just a 4-8 bar loop played over and over, then another loop is played right after it without transition. Just some examples to clarify what I'm talking about.
Psytrance tracks I've seen and made employ around 20 different channels of sound with many complex transitions, builds, breaks and other musical techniques. Psytrance uses very unique sounds, not just generic percussion or pianos. It seems like the idea of writing a story and envoking an emotion is more difficult than just making "noise".
Does anyone else share this point of view?
  http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
|
|
|
Adharaguy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
138
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 22:47
|
Me. 
Main Fusion aka Dj Adhara |
|
|
|
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 22:52
|
I've had talks with plenty of other people and they feel the same way. I grew up listening to techno and house and I guess I just feel as though my tastes have evolved.
I posted this because I had just listened to a prog house track someone wrote and got a bunch of awesome reviews, but it was only made up of a piano melody that was very basic and 2 other basic fx, 2 basic percussion sounds and a kick.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
|
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 23:02
|
|
I have found it depends on the person and their experience. Any genre can sound basic if you listen too it enough. For me some styles of techno are very intriguing and leave me wondering how they do it. |
|
|
|
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 23:06
|
That's true. In general though I find techno and progressive structures to be very basic.
psyprog and progressive trance is another thing, but prog and prog house seem to be overloaded with cookie cutter tracks and I don't understand why so many people praise them.
For example, I was at a rave about a month ago. A ton of people said they were very impressed with the techno live acts. However, when I listened to them at the party, I didn't think much of them, I was just thinking about how basic they sound.
I guess I'm just at a point where I'm confused as to why some people think certain music is really good, even though it is very basic and simple, and they can't even appreciate the complexity of psytrance (not saying they have to like it). http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
|
|
|
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 23:11
|
i disagree.
Every genre has it's own level of "difficulty".
- Progressive can get really elaborated and groovy.
- Techno can get very soundwise and also trying to create nice loops that fit without transitions is hard (there are transitions in techno tho)
- House and elektro have this grooves and breaks that also are so hard to make...
Not to mentions IDM, DnB, NuRave...
Psy is complex but is not THAT complex... besides i believe that wirting a story and evoking an emotion is the same no mater what genre you use.
I belive it is a mater of taste, of course you like psy the most then you focus more on it but i know many techno/househead that could say same things about psy being "basic" and not using any "unique" sounds.
It is more an artist related thing. You can get a complex work of art using charcoal, water color or oils, using expresionism, impresionism, minimalism, cubism, etc... it's all about ideas and intelligence, creative ways to say things.
imho |
|
|
|
Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 23:22
|
I disagree completely.
When you get deeper into some music style, you discover a lot of things that you didn't think about before. Another approches of reaching the "groove", overall feel etc, special sound techniques and many more.
I make music in different styles and I can say that it's all the same, regarding difficulty and fun. It's all about how deeply do you feel ehat's the style about.
Technically - everything is the same. No matter if you make psytrance track with 40+ channels or minimal techno with 5. If you have 5 channels, they should be veery sweet to make the track groove - that's not easy.
Same about ambient, for example. I always thought that producing ambient should be very easy (take 5 - 6 harmonic pads, stretch them to 9 minutes and you are there.) Not true. Same story as with other styles.
Techno - i wouldn't say that techno tracks strctures are more simple than psytrance ones. 90 % of psytrance is very simple, btw
Whatever you produce, you should do your best, so i think that difficulty and fun are all the same always...
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
|
|
|
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 23:25
|
Those are all valid points. You can make creative sounds with a hammer and a nail, but most of the techno I hear it just sounds like they are banging one with the other. The possibilities are always "there", but not present all the time.
My main point was that I hear the same basic techno and progressive sounds and structures and they are praised as something ground breaking or what I consider to be more interesting than they really are (not from a preference standpoint, but from the point of view that a cookie cutter piano melody is nothing unique, nor is a basic percussion loop with standard percussion sounds).
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
|
|
|
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 23:27
|
Yeah I'm no pro in any of this, it's just been what I've observed lately/what I've discussed with people. I guess in the end it is all about preference or taste.
I've also found making chillout tracks to be significantly easier than psytrance (and people have enjoyed both equally). Maybe it's just me.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
|
|
|
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 23:45
|
Hey dudes. maybe music just evolved like society, happiness and purpose.
Maybe it has no higher raison d'etre apart from bringing growth to people.
Maybe it's pointless to judge it from a context of idealism and perfection?
It makes us grow, like sex, food, money, marriage, spirituality... Is there a point in discussing the virtues of one made up concept vs another?
|
|
|
|
~d2~
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
751
Posted : Mar 31, 2009 00:17
|
We are all biased  |
|
|
|
Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Mar 31, 2009 02:56
|
More complex does not necessarily mean better.
I know that layering and depth is important to you, but I don't see why you say "basic" like it has to be a bad thing. All of your criticisms of most tech and prog could very be applied to psy (or any genre) very easily if you're looking at the genre as a whole.
(imo)
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
|
|
|
Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 31, 2009 05:11
|
That's true too, some people prefer simple. I once went to a concert comprised entirely of atonal piano playing where the musician even stopped playing for about 3 minutes in the middle of the performance (odd, but I guess some people call that art).
In the end it's just personal preference. I just feel as though my musical tastes have evolved to something "better" than what they were (due to experience a wide array of musical performances that span many genres). This is not just with electronic music (although I've always been a fan of classical, jazz, etc). The best performances I have seen to date were by the chicago symphony orchestra (an accompaniment by Yo Yo Ma was the best of them - best rendition of Flight of the Phoenix I've heard).
As I said, this topic spawned from my recent experiences at raves (not psytrance parties) as well as conversations with other psyheads/all around music enthusiasts. I just tend to agree with people I have talked to that have a very mature and diverse taste in music.
To each their own. Thanks for the replies everyone.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
|
|
|
Andrew
Voice Of Cod / Zuloop
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
218
Posted : Mar 31, 2009 09:13
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-30 23:22, Medea wrote:
....
When you get deeper into some music style, you discover a lot of things that you didn't think about before. Another approches of reaching the "groove", overall feel etc, special sound techniques and many more.
....
Whatever you produce, you should do your best, so i think that difficulty and fun are all the same always...
|
|
well said
http://www.reverbnation.com/thecontrolzeds |
|
|
|
Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Mar 31, 2009 09:29
|
Ascension, I had the same thought but after some experimentation I can't say I've gotten much wiser...
My logical thinking would go something like this. Ok, so I've made a killah lead - in psy maybe I can use it for 30-40 seconds in the tune, then I have to come up with another one... In house music, a solid lead can almost 'be the track' and at least be used throughout - so I reckoned add some beats and you're home safe
Clearly this is simpler and I'd be able to make more tunes with less creative material?
While I kind of still agree that this is true from a rational point of view, every time I've ventured into making other styles it has turned out to be hard in other ways, like Medea said. What I've taken away from the experience is that I simply need to be in love with the music in order to make it well. Took me years to make a nice fat psy bass whereas a house bass was more a matter of hours, yet I felt less drive and determination.
I suggest try to write different styles, its a learning experience. Trust me, making a minimalistic track that retains a strong groove and drive despite very few sounds to carry it along is just as hard as a messy psy track with many layers of leads and fx... |
|
|
|
